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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2020, 05:33:29 PM »
But environment. We all raise them in a different one. I left the calves on the cows until just now. April/ May calves. My roan bulled weighed 750 today when we walked him across the scale. Is that a testament to his growth or my ability to provide enough fresh forage each day to maximize his growth potential. His dam weighs 1200 pounds wet. Ears half froze off. But she made a athletic bull calf that is a hog. I am in charge of running cows here on 500 acres of mostly fescue/ clover and bluegrass. Will the same animal that thrives here thrive in your environment AJ? I dont know. The cows here have to walk a lot to graze and drink. A lot. But the grass is ******* deep too.
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Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2020, 05:51:42 PM »
His performance is a direct reflection of his ability to grow and perform in the environment you provide.  Some of the older type bulls I did not like would sire calves that couldn't approach 500 pounds in the time yours took to reach 750.  Some bulls of today wouldn't either, for that matter.  If you've got cows you're happy with that raise calves that you're happy with, I wouldn't change a thing.  The trick is to find the next herd sire that improves or at least maintains what you've got. 

Show type cattle have needed a shot of real fleshing ability for a long time.  It's easier to make them look "fuller" with all the who knows what that's done to some of them, but it doesn't help them in the pasture.  I've had pretty good luck over the years either raising my own bulls or purchasing them from folks that raise them similarly to how I do.     

Offline beebe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2020, 06:53:22 PM »
Performance, indicated to some degree by weaning weight, ADG, and yearling weight certainly has some significance to me.  Many of you aren't old enough to remember 350-400 pound weaning weights on good Iowa bluegrass pasture, but I am.  I am more interested in calves that have the genetic ability to perform much better than that on my same pasture, handled the same way.  I don't need a lecture on the efficiencies of small cows.  The cows that raised those 350 pound calves didn't come close to weaning half their body weight.  Their udders hung so low the calves had to almost lie down to nurse.  I don't care what anybody else does, but I'm not real interested in cattle that look like Clipper King of Bapton or Cat 20.  If you ever have a chance, read the Leader 21 story from the old Thomas-Gordon-Draper sales catalogs.  He was an outlier, not at all like the other bulls in the sale where Bob Gordon bought him. That's why he bought him so cheap.   He became popular as a show sire.  That's why ABS had him and there's so much semen around.  He sired some performance and increased frame size.  If you'd look through the old Shorthorn Worlds, about half of the Shorthorn bulls advertised in the late 60's and early 70'w were sons of Leader 21.  Breeders were looking for what he offered.  Most of the heritage bulls that are being used today, were also popular  show sires in their day.  I have semen in my tanks from a dozen of those old bulls.  All but one was either a good show bull in his day or sired some show winners.
In my opinion big should be measured in pounds rather than inches.  Clipper King of Bapton weighed 2650 pounds that is big enough for me.  I am sure Cat 20 weighed well over a ton.  I have a young granddaughter of Clipper King of Bapton that my granddaughter showed in 4H that still has not had any grain.  I believe she has a bright future in producing grass fed genetics.  I recently sold a steer that weighed 1250 and hung an 830 pound carcass that sold for $2.80 a pound hanging weight.  He was a straight Native Shorthorn whose mama was might weigh 1200 and his daddy is not quite a frame score 4.  That is profitable.

 

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