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Offline red

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2008, 04:34:09 PM »
but remember CAB, it's only good if you're sure the pedigrees are correct.  ???

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Offline dori36

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2008, 05:20:34 PM »
DL - That was cool! 8)

But what a waste. This is why I won't buy into certain breeds or clubbies.

Can you tell me what breeds have this problem? Are breeds with the breed up programs at risk of bringing this problem into their registries?

ABS has a long list of carriers posted on their website:  www.absglobal.com/beef.  Click on the TH/PHA tab and you can see their list of names.

DL, that was absolutely amazing and tragic.  I guess I've been "sheltered" from personally experiencing anything l ike that with my choice of breeds and activities.  Where was that Csection being performed?
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Offline Doc

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2008, 06:48:08 PM »
 Hey DL, Thanks for doing that. Very informative. I've seen pictures & heard the stories but seeing it like that , sure wakes you up.
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Offline DL

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 07:20:55 PM »
Couple of things to notice about the video -
it is inside
the cow is under general anesthesia (ie completely out)
there are a ton of people involved in this surgery (all young and strong)
the calf was dead, the cow was killed, and everyone was physically and emotionally drained

now imagine trying to do it standing in a barn in the cold with just you and an old vet (or maybe an old you and a young vet). Then imagine having to bury the cow and the calf in the frozen ground.

PHA causes dystocia because of the massive size of the calf due to the tremendous fluid accumulation. Re TH it does not usually cause dystocia because the calves are not huge per se, but rather their legs are twisted, they have abdominal hernias etc - with wierd presentations of TH calves there could be an increase in dystocia but nothing like PHA.

Despite the beauty and great skill of the surgeon, she is not me, but a talented friend. I thank her for the video and permission to share it - her motives both education and she (nor I nor any rational human being) don't want to have to do this ever again.

Doc, dori, zach, SD, red, SJ - you are very welcome


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Offline Zach

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 08:44:37 PM »
if i had to choose, which i hope i dont   ;)

id take a th calf over a pha calf.

i remeber awhile ago i heard there was a set of PHA twins born somewhere which leads me to another question, if their twins, can one be a deformed calf, the other be normal? still get the other calf out alive?
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Offline Olson Family Shorthorns

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2008, 09:32:28 PM »
I think it would depend on if they're identical twins or not.  If they were formed from a single embryo that split, then I think they would both have the defect.  If they each formed from a separate embryo, there is a good chance that one of the twins would not be born exhibiting the symptoms of a PHA calf.  However, the sheer size of the deformed calf might be able to potentially squash the live calf, right? I mean, these things are 200 lb+  behemoths!
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2008, 09:41:50 PM »
Carry on DL....carry on... (clapping) (clapping)
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Offline TJ

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2008, 10:35:50 PM »
Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 
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Offline TJ

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2008, 10:36:38 PM »
BTW, thanks, DL!
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Offline red

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2008, 08:02:45 AM »
I just want to make sure everyone understands that you are not going to get a TH or PHA calf unless you breed 2 carriers. You will have a 50% chance of a carrier if you use a non carrier to a carrier. I appreciate the video (even if I can't watch it) but I just want to make sure we've got our mables in the same bag!
Don't stop using Maines, Shorthorns or crosses because of the defect. Do your homework, talk to breeders & be aware!


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Offline aj

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2008, 08:15:28 AM »
I wonder if hs nobody's fool is considered pha clean. She goes back to paramount. Shes dead now I guess. But she has like 10,000 offspring in the show circles. :)
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Offline red

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2008, 08:22:35 AM »
Certainly someone has tested her or her DNA? The horns pretty much sweep PHA under rug & ignore it. I guess I don't understand why everyone jumps on the AMMA about PHA & just lets the ASA go. At least the AMMA are looking at taking some steps in the right direction.

Red
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Offline CAB

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2008, 08:45:54 AM »
Duly noted Red. Thank you.
  TJ, seeing that LOwlines are relatively a newer breed, why doesn't the breed asso. address the question of PHA & TH now rather than wait for it to become as wide spread as it is in the SHs & Maines. Wouldn't that just make common sense?
   Was it posted up on this board about the Durham Red's policing TH, but not policing PHA? If so, that makes no sense to me at all.

Offline Olson Family Shorthorns

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2008, 08:57:56 AM »
Certainly someone has tested her or her DNA? The horns pretty much sweep PHA under rug & ignore it. I guess I don't understand why everyone jumps on the AMMA about PHA & just lets the ASA go. At least the AMMA are looking at taking some steps in the right direction.

Red

I think the owners are too afraid of the results.  I wonder if they cut her ear off when she died, like Steinke cut off T 90's?This is for cloning purposes, of course.   It's in a freezer at the U of I...pretty cool lol...
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Offline NHR

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Re: PHA calf video
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2008, 10:11:26 AM »
This video is exactly why I won't use a PHA carrier bull. I have not had one but we did have 2 TH calves a couple years ago and they are the reason I wont use TH carrier bulls.
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