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Plenty of downright shady things have taken place within the show industry.  Anytime $$$ & prestige are the key driving factors behind something, people will be tempted to do all sorts of things to gain an advantage.  Some cave in to temptation & some do not.  I don't think that anybody would deny that.  Also, plenty of perfectly honest mistakes have happened too.  

I know absolutely nothing about this situation, but there are a lot of possibilities that could explain whatever your reason for concern is and several of those possible scenarios are that the breeder, owner and fitter/s are all innocent of any wrong doing.  

Keep this in mind...  

It is a terrible thing to be falsely accused of something!  Even if you think that you MIGHT be right, anytime you speculate, you MIGHT actually be VERY WRONG!                  


The Big Show / Re: Custom hauling
« on: March 10, 2012, 04:56:06 PM »
Sounds a little steep to me, cost me 450/head to get em a 1000 miles.  At your rate that would cost me over a grand and no way would I pay that.  Just having a truck and trailer don't make you a trucker, if your gonna do it properly your gonna need commercial plates, cargo insurance, and I'm sure there is more if your crossing state lines.  Think you should be looking more in the 1.10 to 1.25 range with about a 100 flat rate under 50 miles.  What kind of truck and trailer are you running,  that can make a difference as well. 

I am assuming that his rate is for the whole entire load & then it would be prorated per head.  $400-$500, for 1 head, that is hauled 1,000 miles, is indeed pretty typical, but you are only going to get that rate if they are hauling something else, if they haul something else on the return trip (back haul), or they have a purpose for heading that direction anyway (attending a show, sale, etc.).   I know that quite a few people who will haul from Illinois or Indiana or Kentucky and head out to Denver to attend the stock show or who are on their way back (Denver back to Indiana, Illinois or Kentucky), who will typically haul a calf for around $300 - $400 (give or take), if they have the room.                     

I believe that if allowed to eat grain-- my 'easy doers' are the best eaters-- as are their offspring.  so if they eat twice as much-- are they really 'easy doing'...  visually speaking of course.

If they are like most of mine, under that very same scenario, I wouldn't be calling them "really easy doing", I would be calling them dowright obese.   ;)

The Big Show / Re: Heifer for sale
« on: March 01, 2012, 10:22:10 PM »
Without seeing this heifer on the move, she looks like she could be pretty nice.

The Big Show / Re: IS THIS POSSIBLE?????
« on: February 29, 2012, 04:14:20 PM »
Very possible. We typically have many of our Galloway heifer calves cycling before weaning.  Have had a few calve at 14 months, if we didn't get bull pulled.
And we have had some Tarentaise calve at 14 months... until we started giving the shots.  We always gave 5CC of Lutalyse + 10 - 20 CC (depending upon weight) of dexamethasone just to be safe.  That combo will take care of anything over 3-4 months.  However, it is way better to do it before they get that far along if at all possible.  But, it's also better to play it safe rather than to have to baby sit a 14 month old heifer that is getting ready to calve any day. 

The Big Show / Re: Interesting reading on Sullivan flyer !!!!!
« on: February 29, 2012, 09:44:45 AM »
Tarantaise Hereford red angus for east Oregon?

That is the Hatfield's High Desert Ranch Composite developed in the 1970's, maybe even the real late 60's.  Dr. Hatfield later started the Oregon Country Beef, now known as Country Natural Beef.  Also, that is the exact same 3 breed combination that made up as the original Pharo Cattle Company Composite started back in the 80's or early 90's.  So it worked in eastern Colorado too.  Good cattle that have worked in some pretty dry environments, IMHO.  Extremely hard to beat a 50-75% English X 25-50%  Tarentaise momma cow, IMHO  And the Tarentaise steers are proven to excel in the feedlot and on the rail... Great Western Beef Expo, Oklahoma Steer Feedot, etc., etc. 

Would like to have a small udder with high butterfat and have calf be an eater, yet wean late without affecting cows ability to breed back.
Very much off of the original topic, but...  It sounds like you should consider a Jersey cross or a Tarentaise cross cow nursing a Lowline Angus sired calf, based on your criteria.  I bred some pretty young, late born, purebred, virgin Tarentaise heifers to my first Lowline bull.  The following year half of them bred up at least 30 days.  The Lowline X Tarentaise eat real well on just grass only.  Throw them a little corn and I have no doubt that you could finish one at a year, if you really wanted.  However, you just can't beat a true F1 female nursing a true 3 way cross (50% X 25% X 25%) Steer calf, IMHO.  With that in mind...    

A Galloway X Tarentaise cross cow bred to a Lowline Angus bull just might be the real deal for what you are wanting to do & then some.   ;)

I didn't mention this above, but I should have.  IMHO, the key to acheiving top feedlot performance with moderate framed cattle is having genetics that are fairly early maturing.  Early maturing cattle will grow quick, reach their finished weight easily by 13-14 months and they will actually be finished.

I agree that a frame 5-6 can produce a 1300+ fat calf no problem. I just think it is nieve to believe that the cow behind that calf weighs 1150.  Feed efficiency does have a place in production but I question how we are getting this information. Look up the range cow symposium and look at andy Roberta presentation.
At the Great Western Beef Expo, they weighed the actual feed fed & the steers.  Each pen entry (sire group) was fed individually from the other pen entries (sire groups).  That is how that information was gathered.  

Just read the Sullivan Flyer thread below.  Totally goes against what I just posted above.  You can achieve 1,300+ lb. finished steers at 13-14 months of age with a frame 5-6 bull, if you work at it.  I know.  IMHO, it's got a lot more to do with having the right genetics and the right body type than it has to do with having a huge frame size.  But, to each his or her own.  If you like big frame cattle, have fun and enjoy them.  Just simply saying that you don't necessarily have to have giants to excel in the feedlot.            

I found this pretty good reading. I agree 100%. Those easier keeping, less hay eating cows can run with the other higher input cows. I think cows that eat less can still milk well. Thoughts? Shorthorn people should read this!
I agree 100% too.   Despite flawed modern wisdom that you must have the biggest framed cattle to get maximum feedlot performance, our Tarentaise bull, MHWF The Intimidator, sired the top gaining carcass (actual daily gain with carcass % factored together) at the Great Western Beef Expo Feedlot and Carcass Contest in Sterling, Colorado, back in the mid 90's.  Funny thing was, that bull weighed about a ton in top condition and he was not very tall at all.  We never measured him, at least I don't remember doing it, but I'd guess him around a low frame 5.  One of his offspring, Bluegrass Energizer (a pretty similar sized bull that we raised) was advertised by Kit Pharo as being a frame 4.5, so maybe I am being a bit generous.  Irregardless, you don't need a giant to achieve top feedlot performance.  Period.  In fact, our pen of Intimidator sired steers made the top 10 for feed efficiency in that same test, and IMHO, that is even more important.     

The Big Show / Re: careful pricing your low end show steers
« on: February 25, 2012, 11:57:10 AM »
About time

I've said it 1000 times... I don't like this high income/ expense market place we are living in right now.  I'd much rather be back when corn was a dollar or two a bushel- and cattle were .70 cents... The ratio of profit was much more ideal... Instead now, corn is 7.00 plus, and cattle are at $2.00.  That's just over double the price of cattle, and almost 7x the price of corn...  Something doesn't match up...
  It's certainly cheaper when you don't any feed corn or grain by products, etc.  I refuse to feed it for that very reason.  However, I'd be even more concerned about fuel costs.  If they start to sky rocket, this whole thing might get pretty ugly and quick.  Higher fuel is probably going to equal even higher corn prices and anymore it takes fuel to do almost anything on most farms.  It will also make showing cattle extremely expensive.       

The Big Show / Re: Mini-Hereford on Bryan McKay's Sale.
« on: December 13, 2011, 05:36:12 PM »
she looks really nice TJ.

Thanks!  She's just way too small, unfortunately.  Probably not even a frame 0.

The Big Show / Re: Mini-Hereford on Bryan McKay's Sale.
« on: December 13, 2011, 05:30:11 PM »
Is the mini/ small type cattle just a niche market?  Or how big of a hit would they take at the local United Reducers auctions?

Are their any 'large' scale operations producing these 'smaller' cattle?  Or just homeboys with 10 or 20 cows on 10 acres.??

"Is the mini/ small type cattle just a niche market?"  

Mini cattle absolutely are niche only!  Small cattle will depend upon just how small you are talking.  I wouldn't call frame 3 or bigger cattle strictly a "niche".  But, smaller than a frame 3, absolutely it would be a "niche".  

"Or how big of a hit would they take at the local United Reducers auctions?"

Mini's would take a hit.  And again, small cattle will totally depend upon how small you are talking and possibly where you are located.  I've only sold a few half Lowline steers at the sale barn and I got right around top dollar.  They were probably in the frame 3 - 5 range.  However, the way the grass fed beef market is exploding, I would not sell them at the sale barn.  Way too many people are looking to get into the grass fed meat business right now & many of them are having an extremely hard time producing enough steers and/or finding enough steers.  

"Are their any 'large' scale operations producing these 'smaller' cattle?  Or just homeboys with 10 or 20 cows on 10 acres.??"

Mostly people with less than 20 acres. I do know about a handful of herds up in the hundred - 200 range.  Those bigger herds are selling both seedstock & beef, but mostly seedstock.  A guy in southwest Missouri told me that he would have around 75 fall born calves this year, mostly percentage Lowline.  He mostly sells grass steers, but some seedstock too.  

The Big Show / Re: Mini-Hereford on Bryan McKay's Sale.
« on: December 12, 2011, 06:57:20 PM »
Sale pending on this heifer, but just for your viewing pleasure, attached is a 50% Lowline X 50% Mini Hereford. I ended up with the black baldy in the background too & she's very similar in size.  These 2 are way too small framed for me & for my taste.   Plus, I am really not a baldy fan, but these are pretty good, stout, easy keeping heifers and they were priced right... it was one of those too good of a deal to pass up type of things.  I think that it would be pretty interesting to see what type of calves she would produce if flushed to a clubby bull, but I'll gladly let somebody else conduct that experiment.    ;)   

Cattle For Sale / Re: why not post prices? this is crazy
« on: September 15, 2011, 07:55:42 PM »
Jason has expressed his wishes.  It's his site.  These classifieds are 100% free.  I really do not see the problem, especially when he has paid advertising options on this same site where you can do things exactly the way you want... including advertising your cattle without mentioning a price (see all of the ad's on the left hand side of the site for more info).  

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