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The Big Show / Re: Best of the West
« on: April 09, 2021, 09:02:22 AM »
He went to Uphill Shorthorns in Manitoba.  8H has had a name change to Diamond Royalty 8H as Uphill Shorthorns has the very successful and already established Headliner sire line.

The Big Show / Re: Best of the West
« on: March 29, 2021, 04:30:58 PM »
Lot 18 Diamond Hendrix 2H was the high seller at $38,000.00..Ave $5337.00

The Big Show / Re: Saskvalley stampede
« on: October 25, 2020, 09:43:56 AM »
In my experience ultrasounds through the cup lab are accurate to the carcasses I get through my custom beef program.  As with any data collection (epds) if one doesnt do all in the contemporary group it skews the results (thus less accurate numbers).   

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 22, 2019, 08:21:03 PM »
I have requested the myostatin test for Mandalong Super Flag... if hes a carrier I will have crow for dinner

The Big Show / Re: My new Shorthorn herd sire
« on: July 05, 2019, 09:37:12 PM »
Honestly I would think the test would be a very good investment for your knowledge and peace of mind. I personally wont buy a sire who isnt tested free of all known defects as a herd bull has so much influence on my program.

The Big Show / Re: Muridale Raw Hide 6 E
« on: March 08, 2019, 10:40:20 AM »
He was my pick in the catalog  and videos <beer>

The Big Show / Re: Shorthorn History Buffs
« on: September 18, 2018, 01:24:18 PM »
As breeders of cattle in this time we are incredibly lucky to have access to genetics from the past, and present readily accessible through semen and embryos. We also have the ability to mass produce these genetics to try and ensure you get the traits you are aiming for, I personally have flushed females in the last year to sires from the 70s, 90s, and one from 2004 not to mention current sires. Something to consider is maybe a calf sired by a bull from the 70s in first generation will not have the performance but they do offer the ability to get back positive traits that may have been lost throughout the generations and are likely to pass on those characteristics and more growth to their own offspring.  Our job as breeders is to keep striving to improve our programs and sometimes that involves taking a step back in time. 

The Big Show / Re: JPJ Daughters
« on: December 22, 2016, 10:38:26 AM »
I haven't used JPJ myself but I have seen that Six S Shorthorns used a JPJ son very successfully on a number of different Canadian bloodlines. The same sire was used on a number of herds in Canada and again the cattle looked great. With this limited knowledge I'd think your daughters would cross very well with many sire options. 

When considering BW I would also consider cow size.  I am not a girl that is into one data point.  If a 1000lb cow has a 80lb calf that would be 8% of her body weight I do not consider anything more than 7% calving ease even if the 80lbs on paper looks like it is.  I think if EPDs were to be more accurate a production female weight and body condition score should be inputted on the cow herd (2 and up) it would really bring to light the percentage the calf was to its dam's weight which would make the algorithms more accurate   

 I also respectfully disagree with XBAR having had to calve out many commercial 2 year olds as well as Purebred Red Angus and Shorthorns.  My experience over the last 4 years and over 1200 heifers is I have only assisted heifers that had blocky short fronted calves all these heifers were bred to light BW sires.  BW is important but shape is also a huge factor when considering both the female having the calf and the calf itself. 

The Big Show / Re: KMS Canasta
« on: October 07, 2016, 06:26:01 PM »
Jaime-have you seen him? I remember a video somewhere and he looked like he had a butt on him. I saw the older bull at Denver in 97 I think-And he had a nice side profile but just did nothave the width from behind. they have since come up with some really cool looking clubby x breds that are anything butt narrow. O0

I didn't see Casino as we went to CWA that year but I did see Canasta as a calf and yearling and he was an outstanding bull.  His dam was one of those great cows which left a lasting impression on me I just loved seeing her.

The Big Show / Re: KMS Canasta
« on: October 06, 2016, 11:15:16 PM »
Didn't he have a son that was reserve National Champion up there or something? He was a darker roan bull O0
He did in 2006. Lucky Springs Casino 39P 58S he was also the high seller at RAWF in 2007 for $31,000.  I stole a picture off their website!

The Big Show / Re: Mandalong Super Flag
« on: October 06, 2016, 10:43:09 PM »
We are the only breeders who came back and said hey we have a protocol in place.  We will only sell bulls that are free of all defects.I have attached a study of myostatin that refutes it originated when Shorthorns spread to Europe but instead in the Friesen breed before becoming specialized in milk. The Shorthorn variant is the same as the Maine Anjou and this would be an obvious source since Maine Anjou was accepted into both the British and American herdbook. On top of which there are several suggested sources of Maine Anjou introduction in at least 3 countries where Maine animals were introduced with a Shorthorn pedigree. These are speculation but appear to be true but there is no way of verifying these claims. So the source is Maine Anjou an unknown number of times! speculation ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/ noun 1. the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. Compound this with the grading up option and myostatin could have been introduced from several other breeds. There is myostatin in GALLOWAY, Angus, Hereford, Longhorns besides most European breeds. Testing of prospective bulls would be prudent! Especially when you have been suggesting that there is more Galloway influence aside from the initial introduction from Charles Colling in 1791 which was referred to as the "Alloy blood".  See quoted text below regarding myostatin. 

I am dropping this topic as for me it's no better than beating a dead horse <deadhorse>.  You suggest that a person that buys one of our bulls from a neighbor or an auction is one of our customers.  In actual fact they are the customer of the people they are buying the bull from.  In that case they can a) request a test before paying b) if purchased from auction test bull themselves or c) my personal recommendation buy from a reputable breeder and request all tests that you require to sleep soundly at night.

"4.4. Introducing the phenotype The pattern of haplotype sharing is an indicator of the history of the different bovine populations, or breeds, so the distribution of shared haplotypes is very useful to investigating population relationships. In the last century, different explanations on the origin of the double-muscled phenotype in different continental beef breeds were proposed. One hypothesisisthe extensive dissemination of individuals of the Shorthorn breed used in the late 19th century to improve most western European bovine breeds which would explain the presence of the trait [10,25], and the other being the Friesian breed [9,20,31] or more generally milk purpose black pied bovine populations from the Baltic plain (Hanset, pers. comm.), being responsible for spreading the mutation all over western Europe [25]. In order to test the hypothesis of the introduction of the double muscling alleles from a single breed, we studied the relationships between the different haplotypes deduced from the complete coding sequence, using the Kimura distance (which allows to consider transitions as well as transversions) and the construction of a Neighbour Joining tree (Fig. 2). The examination of these relationships between the haplotypes showed haplotype 3 as the wild type from which all mutations have arisen in four defined groups: the first cluster was missing intronic 37451 (haplotypes 2, 9, 7 and 20); the second cluster groups haplotypes 4, 5, 10, 13, 15 and 17 by sharing a set of intronic mutationsfound together(nt37451, nt37450, nt37416 and nt414), a third group included haplotypes 1 and 11, and finally the fourth was integrated by 19, 12, 18, 14, 6, 8 and 16. Among these four groups, one set of old haplotypes appeared at equivalent times, that is those integrating the last group and also 1, 2 and 9, while haplotypes 7, 20, 4 and 11 arose later and more recently those haplotypes belonging to the second cluster, with 10 being the most recent (Fig. 2). Myostatin diversity in beef cattle 115 The consideration of these relationships between haplotypes should make the evolution of the myostatin gene easier to understand. The existence of many different haplotypesthat are not rooted in a common mutated ancestorseems to definitely refute a Shorthorn-Durham origin forthemuscular hypertrophy phenotype. Although there was an important introduction of individuals belonging to this breed across Europe at the end of the 19th century and at the beginning of the 20th, especially in grassland (oceanic) territories, the analysis of the myostatin gene of this breed at the present indicates the lack of any mutation. However, the theory of a founder mutation (nt821(del11)) spreading from an epicentre localised in the Friesian or Black Pied breed, much before its large specialisation into milk production seems much more congruent. There is much evidence of a hypertrophic phenotype in this population [20,38] before the organisation of the breed and selection for high milk specialisation and before the migration of this population into several milk breeds, (e.g., Normande or Parthenaise) before 1950. It is important to note that during these years, most breedsin Europe were dual purposes, and they have only recently been selected specifically for beef or milk production. This can explain the introduction of haplotype 2 from the Friesian breed to dairy (Normande), and beef breeds (Aubrac, Blanc Bleu Belge, Parthenaise, Asturiana de Valles, and Rubia Gallega), after a large diffusion of this breed before the nineteen-fifties and later. In an attempt to improve the beef characters of some breeds, the selection of individuals that were heterozygotes for the disruptive mutation may have occurred through all northern and western Europe including Spain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Austria. For instance, the Moyennne and Haute Belgique breed, issued from this milk purpose population, became the Blanc Bleu breed through fixation of mutation nt821(del11) and later selection for mh expression [17,18]. This phenomenon has been performed through different waves made evident when observing the large linkage disequilibrium found in Asturiana de Valles showing a more recent introduction [11]. Other breeds have been left apart from these migratory movements: this is the case for the Maine-Anjou, Charolaise and Gasconne located geographically in the French continental grasslands, in which particular mutations arose later with no spreading to the surrounding populations, or even in some cases (e.g., Limousine) have never appeared. According to this hypothesis, the results found for the British breeds were congruent since only individuals belonging to the South Devon showed a disruptive mutation corresponding to haplotype 2 which could have been introduced from exchanges with the Friesian or Black pied breed which have been highly documented in this country [20]."

The Big Show / Re: Mandalong Super Flag
« on: October 04, 2016, 07:51:45 PM »
My bull has been tested for TH and PHA. He is negative.
I tested him after it came to light that Clipper King of Bapton was a TH carrier. My bull has some of that breeding so I tested him
 My situation is an example of a person owning a herd sire that comes from vintage semen. Genetics that have been out of circulation for many decades are now being used. again.
 Super Flag embryos were for sale not so long ago, so he is not obsolete.
Your example proves only that if one knows what defect to test for, they can select against it. If one has carrier cows then testing herd sires becomes very important to avoid homozygous expression of the defect. Why not at least give folks a heads up that they may own carrier cows or bulls from years ago?

Actually that example proves that if a carrier is in a pedigree a person should test because they could very well be clean. It also would be impossible to"select" against without testing the current stock! Earlier I mentioned we bought a bull that was clean by pedigree and yet tested positive for TH. Either way testing is necessary. We have tested several head for DS and never had a carrier but still test our herd bulls because we want to be sure not to introduce it. Speculating on what might or might not be a carrier won't help our customers so as tests become available we utilize them.

When we discuss old bulls the problem being those people who promoted them have all since dispersed.  In my case I have semen on Eionmor Ideal 69F and I watched a package sell in 2014 for $280 a straw.  Realistically speaking it would not benefit me enough as a breeder to dispose of a valuable straw of semen when I already have a testing policy in place. I also have limited vials of Super Flag who was dead before I was born, again I am further ahead to use him and test the offspring(especially since I have no reason to believe he is a carrier)  as these are genetics that once destroyed can't be reproduced.

The Big Show / Re: Mandalong Super Flag
« on: September 30, 2016, 01:39:31 PM »
When Igenity tests for Myostatin they test for all 9 variants.  We have been testing all of our herd sires and bull calves regardless of bloodline
What year did you start routine testing for myostatin mutations?
Are females also tested? The problem usually comes up because people have carrier cows in their herds and then AI to an older bull or a carrier bull from another breed- then they get double muscled calves.
Oakview, I'm not just doing this to be obnoxious. I love shorthorns and don't like to see grow in fame as The Trainwreck Breed when it's preventable.
Zulu 3Z has exactly the kind of pedigree I would test if he was my bull.

Some Eagle Bulls have the typical sloping hindquarters and distinctive rump muscling that indicates heterozygous expression, but only testing can answer these questions.

Say we begin to gain traction with beef producers instead of show cattle breeders. If Angus producers begin to buy Shorthorn bulls or semen with an eye to saving the F1 females, we can't bring any new myostatin mutations in or we will lose all the acceptance we have gained.

Our own herd personal protocol was established when we acquired a THF bull by pedigree and when we submitted DNA for registration (after using him) found out he was a THC!  Doesn't matter to me where the mix up was the fact was it was devastating for us as we had just finished cleaning up TH in the herd.  Of the daughters we kept (only 2) both turned out to be carriers. If we know of a defect we test for it, you don't know when mistakes have been made.  As we move forward every herd sire we purchase for use here has to be free of all known defects. No doubt other defects will turn up, some breeds have several more than the shorthorn breed. If you believe that all Angus breeders are testing their bulls for all defects you are sadly mistaken. I know of commercial breeders using angus that have had defective calves.This means we've started testing all herdsire prospects on a no tolerance for a defect basis.  We have never got a DS or PHA carrier but the only way to guarantee anything to a customer is to have tested for it.  While we are testing for defects we also DNA verify our bulls so that customers don't have to pay for it as well as registrations.

It's very simple for me.  I love the breed, my cattle, and the people I work with.  I respect my customers and want to guarantee to the best of my ability that they are happy with the product.

I won't point fingers on a public forum saying it's a Canadian problem, or Australian, New Zealand, European or even American specifically.  I will just say I own this breed and if there are known defects I will test, as a test is the only guarantee to my customers.

The Big Show / Re: Mandalong Super Flag
« on: September 26, 2016, 04:25:27 PM »
jaimiediamond, I thought you had been banished to the Canadian internet wilderness, welcome back, been a long time since I saw a post!
I actually took a trip of a lifetime and went to Australia to look at the genetics I am most interested in.  During that trip I got very ill and it turned out I was pregnant and have been one of the lucky women to have hypermesis gravidarum.  Now at 6.5 months along I am starting to feel human again and tada I am back!
Big Mac was collected, I actually have one straw, and Duane Farrar or Milt Hennig might have some. I know another fellow who has a few straws.

I actually was talking to dad this morning and he let me know that Big Mac had been collected and he even used him by AI when I was 4 going on 5! We have no semen left to test but it would be interesting if someone that did have semen was willing to destroy one to get the results. 

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