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16
The Big Show / Re: I lost my longtime cattle buddy -Dale Wernicke
« on: September 15, 2019, 04:17:42 PM »
Dale's passing has hit me pretty hard. It seems like I have known him forever. I don't really remember when we first met, but I know I have known him for my entire adult life. In the 70s Dale used to come to some of our fall sales and I was always amazed how much he could eat. I remember after one sale, we went out and had steaks and all the trimmings, then went to a local watering hole and spent a few hours there. On the way back to the hotel, Dale said he was hungry, and I said we would be going right past a 24 hour restaurant on the way to the hotel. Dale ordered a dozen scrambled eggs, with 8 slices of crispy bacon, and 4 slices of toast. Trust me, when I say that 12 scrabbled eggs will not fit on a normal sized plate. They brought it all to him on a large platter, and ate every ounce of it.
Dale was one of those guys who loved his cattle, but he loved his farm and his family even more. If you mentioned his family, his eyes would light up. He was immensely proud of his son Ryan and his grandchildren. Dale was a straight shooter. If I asked him about something, I never once questioned his answer. His response was exactly what he thought. He was a breath of fresh air in this regard, as there are so many people who just try to tell you what you want to hear. Dale raised some very good cattle, and he never bragged them up to anything that they weren't. If I was talking with Dale on the phone and he told me he had a pretty good bull... I knew that the bull was definitely pretty good!  He had a great eye for cattle and he certainly didn't just follow the crowd.
He had a wicked sense of humor, which some people did not recognize. Just a few years ago, I was visiting with Dale and he asked me who was judging a certain show. When I told him, he said" you are kidding me aren't you?". I replied that this was who I had heard was judging it. Dale said " he wouldn't know the difference between hippo s**t and gum drops without having to do a taste test first". It turned out that Dale was pretty good at analysing judges as well. I have chuckled many times about this conversation when I have thought of it.
Anyone who knew Dale knew that he was having some health issues for quite awhile, but lately he had been doing pretty good. His death is still a shock and I will miss him. His son Ryan is like Dale in so many ways, so in some ways that is good. RIP my friend. I am sure you are straightening up a few of the cattlemen who have passed before you.

17
The Big Show / Re: Black Noses On Shorthorn Cattle by Dr. Martin Lee
« on: September 08, 2019, 08:35:18 AM »
Several years ago, I was asked to cull a set of 380 yearling bulls of all breeds on feet and legs in a bull test station. Virtually every breed was included. Everything was going fine, with a few bulls eliminated from every breed, for feet and leg issues, until I got to the Red Angus bulls. I was concerned whether I should use the same scrutiny in them as I did with all the other breeds. They had, by far, the most bad footed bulls of any breed in the station. The biggest problem was toes that crossed and some of them were extremely bad. I think the Red Angus breed has worked hard to eliminate this issue but I am sure some still shows up occasionally.
In regards to black noses, many of the black noses in today's Shorthorns do go back to some of the Irish imports. Black noses also have existed in the breed since the very early days. i remember several imported bulls from Scotland that had black noses. Drynie Argosy was a herd sire at Remitall Cattle Co in Alberta and he had a black nose and Louis Latimer still imported him, because he thought he was the best bull he saw there and he decided to import him and breed around the black noses.  Another famous bull that came from Scotland was Glamis Benefactor, who many considered to be the best Shorthorn bull ever developed in the breed. He broke some price records when he sold. He not only had a black nose, but he had black pigment all over his body. His hair color around his eyes was black, and the skin around his anus was pitch black. I remember going to Louada Farms in Ontario, shortly after they purchased and imported the entire Denend herd from Scotland. I was surprised at the number of cows in that herd that had black noses.  A few years ago, I had a great opportunity to visit with Donald and Diana McGillvary, who owned the famous Calrossie herd in Scotland. In our discussions about the Shorthorns in the 50s and 60s in Scotland, Donald said that the reason Shorthorns had almost become extinct in the UK was because the breeders in the 50s and 60s refused to breed cattle that the commercial producers were wanting. He said that there was issues in Shorthorns in that era, with things like double muscling and he also mentioned black noses and black pigment. This visit with the McGillvary's was one I will always remember. The Calrossie herd set all sorts of records back in that era. Donald told me that in 1952, he took 13 bulls to the Perth sale and he averaged over 12,000 guinneas on them, which amounts to over an average of $120,000 in today's money evaluation.

18
The Big Show / Re: Mature bulls
« on: August 05, 2019, 09:11:08 PM »
I think ohlde imported dividend, couldnt get Assn to register him so he sold him.

He was also partial to Cumberland line, got some in hands of cal poly, bought a few back and one became JPJ.

He would bring 20 or so to cal polys steer sale every year and would take on interns every year.

My memory tells me that Dick Judy told us that Ohlde had imported some of the cattle but I don't ever recall being told which ones were his. He could quite well have imported Dividend  as we tried to buy him as soon as we saw him. The ASA had just turned down the Irish cattle from entering the ASA herd book at any level , for the second time, just before we got there. When we saw Dividend, we tried to buy him as we thought we may have a good chance getting him into the Canadian herd book. At first Judy told us he would not sell Dividend, but he contacted us a few days later and said that everything should have a value so he would sell him to us at $20,000 US. We were tempted, but then decided that we already had One bull from Ireland and we could go back and get another for less money if we wanted one.

19
The Big Show / Re: Mature bulls
« on: August 05, 2019, 08:40:29 PM »
beef friesians are also red and white.


tim ohlde used to have quite a few.


they are mostly what's in the background of his "angus II"




I have a catalog of beef friesian semen.


not sure how one would find 100% friesian females at this point.


would love to get that semen. especially the reds. i thought a couple of the reds were better than the b/w's he had.


they sort of remind me of the whitebreds except prettier.


they are what was used to make amerifax


https://www.dustyprairieranch.com/aboutus.html


https://www.beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_focus_females


http://www.vbarcattle.com/amerifax.html


If memory serves me correctly, I am thinking that Tim Ohlde worked at Beef Genetics Research for awhile, possibly right around the time of the Irish importations.
I am also really looking forward to seeing some Irish Moile cattle. I haven't seen any in the flesh yet, but I have been hearing some stories that they are making a comeback in the UK. Some of them look pretty interesting as well.

20
The Big Show / Re: Mature bulls
« on: August 05, 2019, 10:05:38 AM »


I am really looking forward to my trip next week to Ireland and then on to England. I arrive in Dublin Saturday morning, August 10th and I will spend the next 4 days there.  I will also  be attending the Tullamore show which hosts the National breed shows for all breeds. I have heard the entries for most shows are some of the strongest ever, so I expect to see a lot of interesting cattle. Then on to England for another several days. Almost two weeks isn't enough to see everything, but it is a good start!   Hoping to see as many Shorthorn herds as I can. I expect to see some excellent cattle. ??? PLEASE TAKE ANY KIND OF CELL PICTURES NO MATTER HOW MUNDANE THEY MAY SEEM _ESPECIALLY THE BRITISH WHITEBREDS IF THEY HAVE A  DISPLAY-ITS A GOD$%%&*()m travesty that cattle that thick EZ calving and historically useful  for 200 years could be almost extinct They created the ORIGINGAL GRASS FED BLUE GREYS-that pompous wanna bes like Pharo cattle dont want to recognize because they arent his so-called- idea -nor do they conform to the sale barn moron color codes O0
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This is something I have thought about many times since I travelled in Scotland a few years ago. On that trip, I spent the first 5 days attending the Royal Highland Show in Edinburgh. I saw so many different cattle... some I liked and some I certainly didn't. I also liked the Britsih Whitebred cattle and saw a tremendous amount of usefulness in them. I was also super impressed with the Longhorn breed, and they are totally different than what we think of when we think of Longhorns in North America. If I had been the judge of the Beef Supreme over all Breeds that year, I would have selected the Champion Longhorn bull. The Grand Champion Longhorn female would have also been in the running for Supreme over all breeds. I watched the Luing show at the Royal Highland, and I have often wondered why this breed has never caught on with those cattle producers who are wanting calving ease, moderate frames and sound structures. The Luings were probably the soundness set of cattle I saw, and by far, the most uniform. They are known for their calving ease, hardiness and also have excellent carcass traits. I also saw some South Devons that blew my mind and some Red Devons appeared to be useful beasts as well. I was also very impressed with the Beef Friesens. The first Beef Friesens I ever saw was at Beef Genetics Research Inc, Mankato, KS when we drove there to see the Irish Shorthorns they had imported in the early 70s. Deerpark Dividend, Deerpark Improver and Deerpark Improver 3rd were included in this shipment. Dick Judy also imported Simmentals and Beef Friesens on that trip and the Beef Friesens were by far the biggest number he imported. Of our group of 5 who made this trip, we all agreed that they were the best cattle we saw. All 5 of us also agreed that we did not think they had much chance of ever being accepted in North America because of their black and white coloring. The pasture of 30 Beef Friesen yearling heifers at BGR was one of the most impressive sets of replacement heifers I have ever saw.

21
The Big Show / Re: Mature bulls
« on: August 04, 2019, 11:15:31 AM »
This is the first bull I've owned and bought him last year to sweep up after AI. Just thought I'd throw him into the thread when I had a mature pic. He's 32 months. Think he's grown well, although he isn't tall by Irish standards. He is standing a bit funny but he wasn't for moving. Bred from Sprys Patents Ace and an Irish bred cow (from a bull, Bushypark Enda 4th).//// Ive been going on the Societies issues and have seen a couple phenominal animals in Ireland-Its like the old days-Where does that magic come from? I wish the powers that be over there and or here would have a few beers or whatever and resume the back and forth on some of those genetics again O0

Ireland has been using North American and Australian genetics to improve the cattle here, however there are some great tradition Irish lines still here and when crossed with the imported semen the next generation are really improving. It takes both sides of the genetics pool to really impress. We have used some UK genetics as well, but the resulting crosses don't always hit the high levels seen with the North American and Australian crosses.
The 100% Irish lines are getting rarer now however and there is an additional herd book to record them. It's important to keep these lines and increase these numbers again because of how well they cross with the other genetics.


I am really looking forward to my trip next week to Ireland and then on to England. I arrive in Dublin Saturday morning, August 10th and I will spend the next 4 days there.  I will also  be attending the Tullamore show which hosts the National breed shows for all breeds. I have heard the entries for most shows are some of the strongest ever, so I expect to see a lot of interesting cattle. Then on to England for another several days. Almost two weeks isn't enough to see everything, but it is a good start!   Hoping to see as many Shorthorn herds as I can. I expect to see some excellent cattle.

22
The Big Show / Re: Mature bulls
« on: August 04, 2019, 08:54:09 AM »
I enjoy seeing mature bulls either in pictures or better yet, in the flesh. I think they tell you so much more than a calf picture does.
I have several mature bull pics in my picture files and I have attached some of them:

picture 1 is a picture I snapped of Alta Cedar Ultimate 130K as an 8 year old at Muridale. This was taken after he had been pulled from the breeding pasture.
Picture 2 is a really old one. This is Highfield Irish Mist at 12 years of age, after breeding over 60 cows that summer. He oftentimes bred cows at 3 farms every year and oftentimes bred 90-100 cows each year naturally. I consider him to be my " once in a lifetime" bull.
Picture 3 is HC Free Spirit 6Y at 5 years of age. He had been breeding cows for 5 weeks when this picture was taken
Picture 4- NPS Improver 948 -  pictured here at 9 years of age. He was a TH free son of Deerpark Improver and Ka'Ba Rose T90.

23
The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 25, 2019, 08:40:40 AM »
I have lots to learn yet about myostatin, but it does appear that it is not something new in the Shorthorn breed. Some breeders in the UK have told me, that double muscling in Shorthorns can be traced back to the very early days of the breed. When I was in Scotland a few years ago, old time breeders told me that double muscled calves appeared occasionally back then.  They say that some of the breeds that evolved from Shorthorn blood, such as the Belgian Blue and Maines, got the double muscling traits from the myostatin strains passed on by their Shorthorn fore fathers. I have also read that myostatin is found in many breeds. It appears that Shorthorns may have more cases of it than some others. So far, I have only tested about 20 animals for myostatin and the results have been all over the map. I started testing my donors and my present herd sires and I am hoping to get some more done soon. I have found it almost impossible to predict which animals will be carriers and which will not. I have had myostatin carriers from genetics from all parts of the world- some straight Canadian, some US,and some Aussie bloodlines. I have had completely clean animals from all these different bloodlines as well.
The British Shorthorn society has recently passed a rule that ET calves can only be registered if they are from parents that carry one or less myostatin strains. ET calves from a parent with more than one myostatin strain can be registered only once they are tested and found to only have one or no strains. I have talked with one breeder from the UK and he says that they are walking very carefully in regards to myostatin, as it is not just a negative condition. He says that myostatin is also linked to tenderness in beef, and that is why some packers are paying a premium for myostatin carriers. Like most of these things, everyone has a theory and it gets confusing trying to sort through to the truth. I have found some of the research articles confusing as well, and some contradict each other. I am spending two weeks in Ireland and England in early August and I am hoping to find out more from their expertise in this area. I have not tested any of my former herd sires yet, but I am pretty certain some will prove to be myostatin carriers. I may be surprised, but that is what I am thinking right now. Like Scot mentioned, I have only had two double muscled calves in my herd, and strangely, both were from bloodlines I bought to add to my herd. The first one came from a cow I purchased in Alberta many years ago. Straight Canadian beef breeding, but the calf was line bred to a known myostatin carrier we know of today.  The second was from a set of embryos I purchased a few years ago. Again, both sire and dam were Canadian beef breeding and also like Scot mentioned, both these calves topped the market when I sold them. I did not have any calving issues from either one of these calves. Both females calved by themselves and the calves were extremely good looking until they got a bit older and the heavy muscling began to appear.
Like many others, I am scrambling to learn as much as I can about this condition, and I hope I can sort through the truth and the fiction and find out how to deal properly with it. It appears that one strain of myostatin may result in more calving and muscling issues than the others. I need more proof if this is actually true or not as well.
A commercial bull buyer who has purchased several bulls from me over the years, also purchased a Speckle Park bull in 2018. He told me that the Speckle Park breeder told him that he should not breed his Shorthorn cross cows to the Speckle Park bull because he could end up with some double muscled calves. He did breed 4-5 Shorthorn cows to the Speckle Park bull and all the calves are normal. I have never heard this from anyone else, but I guess there may be a chance this is true. Speckle Park are derived from blending Shorthorn and Angus bloodlines back in the 60s. I also have had an Angus breeder tell me that he had a purebred Angus calf that was double muscled a few years ago as well. If this is the case, it makes me wonder how significant myostatin is in other breeds? I have read that double muscling can be also found in Simmental as well. Again, I am not sure how common this is. Lots to learn yet!

24
The Big Show / Re: Mature bulls
« on: May 17, 2019, 08:46:37 AM »
If you are ever in the Midwest, and have time to swing by a major semen collection center like Hawkeye Breeders, Adel, Ia, you can see many of these popular clubby bulls. It becomes pretty obvious to me, why they are promoted mainly by the calf picture of them. I have saw some that are impressive mature bulls, but I have also saw some that you would not let close to your Jersey milk cow. I have saw some that were so structurally unsound and crippled that I had to wonder why anyone would collect semen from them. Like I said earlier, I have also saw some that have matured well. I also like to see mature bull pictures in their working condition. It is at least 1 small step towards the real world.

25
The Big Show / Re: 1107 lb. weaning weight
« on: May 06, 2019, 08:06:56 AM »
With their sale being so early in the year, I think that is one of the reasons they do not semen test their bulls prior to the sale. I am seeing this in several other early sales now, especially if it has been a cold winter along with an early sale. A semen test is only a snapshot of the semen quality in a moment of time. I have seen bulls go from not passing their breeding soundness exam to passing it easily in one week. This year, I had a March born bull who was deferred for proximal droplets, which are basically immature semen. The bull was 11 months old and it was brutally cold when we tested in February. This bull was tested again 3 weeks later and he scored 92%, but it had warmed up by then and the bull was 3 weeks older.
A few years ago, I happened to arrive at Hawkeye Breeders, in Iowa on the same day as several SAV bulls arrived for collection after their sale. One of the guys at Hawkeye told me that lots of the SAV bulls they get, take a few months to start to produce freezable semen. He also said that every SAV bull that arrives gets a special mineral bolus and this has seemed to help get them to freeze sooner.( this has something to do with the water quality at SAV if I remember correctly). SAV are not alone if this is the case, as I have heard this happening with bulls from several other leading breeders. In any event, and no matter how they collect their data at SAV, one has to marvel at their breeding and marketing abilities and how they have produced some genetics that have become leaders in the Angus breed. I would not doubt that you can find SAV genetics in almost every country in the world that has Angus cattle. And this just wouldn't be happening if the cattle they produce did not offer something that works.

26
Duke of Dulbin's EPDs are unavailable on the ASA website.  I had heard his daughters weren't the best milkers.  Is that true?  How about birth EPD?  I see Fastrak is almost + 8 for BEPD.  I had a couple Duke calves years ago that were pretty good.  KaDel Urice sold a few bull calves at the Iowa Beef Expo many years ago that were real good.  I have full Irish semen in the tanks from Ultimate Type, Highler 202, Improver 3rd, High Octane, Leggs, Quane, Leader 18th, Leader 13th, Duke, Prime Time, Highler 204, and Guiness.  I haven't used any other than Leader 18th for many years, though I always liked the Irish calves I had.  Maybe the time is right to use them again?  I just loved the Leader 18th and Ultimate Type cows I had.

The Duke dtrs I had all milked good. Duke, Prime Time, Irish Mist and Improver were my favorites. I got along pretty good with UT on heifers. Highler 202 I liked when I saw him, but his progeny did the least for me. Hazel Leap was another one that I had a couple pretty good daughters of.


My experience with Duke of Dublin was that if he was bred to a good milking cow, he would sire a good milking daughter. If the cow he was bred to was moderate milking, he would sire a moderate milking daughter. I never thought of Duke as being a bull who would add milk to any of his offspring. That said, most Shorthprn females have " adequate" milk and there are often more that milk too much than there are that milk too little.

There has been some good bulls mentioned here that I have always thought should have been used more back in the day. Hazel Leap 2nd was a very very good bull, and his best known son Lazy D HL Quane was probably even a better breeding bull. I remember seeing Hazel Leap 2nd shortly after Dick Judy, from Beef Genetics Research Inc, Mankato, KS imported him in the same shipment that included Dividend, Improver, Leader 16th and many other bulls and females. I was impressed with Hazel Leap 2nd. Another bull that I really liked was Tourand Sir Ivor. Sir Ivor was sold to a commercial herd in Kansas a few months after arriving in the US, as the ASA did not allow any Irish cattle into the ASA herd book two years in a row and Dick Judy decided he better start selling some of these Irish cattle off to recoup some of his money invested. We happened to be at Dick Judy's the day after the ASA decided not to allow any Irish cattle into their herd book. He was so upset over this decision, that I think we could have bought any of the Irish cattle he imported that day. He even priced Dividend and Improver to us that day, and it was a high price but would have still been a very good investment.  We went over to see Tourant Sir Ivor in the commercial herd he was working in, and he was a real beef bull. He was probably one of the Irish bulls that slipped through the cracks and did not get used enough. I bought a son of Tourant Sir Ivor in Denver named Sandy Creek Ivor several years later. Ivor was a white bull and one of my biggest regrets is that I never collected semen from him. At the time, we also had Highfield Irish Mist, IDS Duke of Dublin, CCS Improver, and IDS Improver ( all full Irish), along with Ready Go, Waukaru Cinnabar, Four Point Major,  and Ellsway Columbus as our walking herd bulls. I had collected semen from most of these and I decided there was probably not enough interest in a white horned bull to collect him. I have regretted it ever since. Ivor produced some powerful offspring. After using him a few years, I sold him to Dale Wernicke in Illinois, and shortly after he got there, Dale found him dead in the pasture after he got rolled over in a hollow in the pasture and he bloated and died.
I have often wondered if there was much semen around from Lady D HL Quane. I am thinking he is a bull that should be introduced to a few cows again. I remember some awesome females sired by him. I saw Quane at Mcfarlands in South Dakota several times, and he was very impressive, as were many of his offspring

27
Duke of Dublin crossed my mind also. But I can't remember his defect status. He was probably horned......which may not be all that bad.

Duke was definitely horned, pretty sure clean on all 3 and I always like my Duke daughters.

Yup. Duke was horned, but we seemed to get polled calves if the dam was polled. This was also the case when we used Irish Mist on polled cows. Duke had been dehorned when we got him in Ireland, but we did have some full Irish calves from him that had horns, but they were loose, that is, they flopped on their heads, and were not attached to the skull. They were like big scurs but smaller than horns usually are. Maybe they were closer to being scurs than actual horns, I am not sure.
And yes, Duke was also clean for all 3 defects.
I was just thinking a few days ago, that I should use him on a few cows again. Duke was incredibly quiet and his calves were the same way. When I drove into the pasture, Duke would walk to my truck and stick his big head into the open window and lay it in my lap. I was scratch his head and he would not move. This became a normal thing for us, every time he saw the truck coming into the pasture. Once he was done breeding cows, all I had to do was drive into the pasture with the trailer on, and open the end gate and he would walk in. He seemed to know when his work was done.

28
The Big Show / Re: Looking for old Shorthorn bull pics
« on: April 13, 2019, 08:23:01 AM »
I have a few calves coming from Krakatoa in about a month. Dan Stephenson thinks he can drum up a picture and was going to send one to me. In the mean time here is a daughter from Braun Ranch in Sask.
Thanks for the picture, I like her that encourages me.

I know I have a picture of Krakotoa someplace as well. Unfortunately I do not have it on my computer so I will have to try to find it in some old magazines and scan it. I remember this bull very well and wish I could scan my mental picture of him to my computer. I think you would really like him. He certainly was a bull that made them thick and easy fleshing. Far ahead of his time!

29
The Big Show / Re: Looking for old Shorthorn bull pics
« on: April 13, 2019, 07:52:42 AM »
Zero chance he was a 4 1/2 frame if he indeed weighed 2400.  Though take into consideration  the embellishments that typically follow this particular storyteller. 

And $6000, in 1969, Mercy.  I was curious so had to look it up: the average annual income in both Canada and the US in 69 was between $5,800 and $6,000. With the average price of Saskatchewan farmland at the time being $60 an acre, where would a Western Canadian farmer have acquired that kind of disposable income to drop 100 times that on a bull ?

Ryan, I really don't care if you believe what I say or not.  Despite what you think, there was some pretty good prices paid back in this era for breeding stock. I have spent my entire life in this business and I do remember a few things yet. So I plead guilty to being a bit of a storyteller, even if I don't consider myself to be one. Actually, I feel very fortunate to have been able to do the only thing I ever wanted to do( and contrary to what you think, I did have to buy my farm and I paid dearly for it). I have been able to make my living from raising cattle and have never actually had another job ( other than helping others at a few sales over the years)
 I remember my parents going to the Louada sale in Ontario in 1965 and they bought a son of Bapton Constructor at $5000. Another Saskatchewan breeder also went to this sale and he bought a bull at $12,500. He also bought 3 females between $2800 and $8000. The high selling bull in this sale was $30,000, and sold to Argentina.  The high selling Shorthorn bull at the 1968 Regina Bull Sale was $8000. I still have marked catalogs for almost all of the Regina Bull Sales from the early 50s through to when the sale ended just a few years ago. For many years this was the biggest bull sale in the world, and they sold bulls for 5 days from morning to night. I remember there was over 1000 Polled Hereford bulls there one year in the 70s,  and there was 14 bulls that sold at  $10,000 or more.I think the high price that year was $45,000 and very few bulls passed in the sale. In 1976, Crestdale Super Flag 14G sold in the Shorthorn sale at Regina Bull Sale for $41,500. And just like now, many breeders would place a higher price on an animal when someone was interested in it, and they did not want to sell it too bad. This was probably the case, when we asked for a price for Red Max Prince. He priced him and my dad decided he didn't want to pay that much for him. I don't think that is such a strange thing to happen. When I look back at some of the prices back 40-50 years ago ( or more) I really don't think prices for breeding stock have kept up with how costs have increased. Even in the 1990s when we also had a Charolais herd, we sold them privately out of the yard at your pick at $3000. We  sold 12-15 Charolais bulls for several years at this price. When I think of how much our costs have risen in the last 20 years, we are not keeping up with the prices we get for breeding stock today. For several years, we sold our Charolais bulls at $3000 and did not drop our price for the last few to sell. According to a inflation conversion table, $3000 in 1990 would be $5736 in 2019 dollars. We oftentimes sold 2-3 bulls at this price to some ranchers, and I remember one Montana rancher coming and taking 6 bulls at $3000 one year. Most of us don't think of this and still think $3000 is a good price today. My dad is 94 now, and still tries to keep up with what is happening in the cattle business. He attended our bull sale in March, and we averaged $4222 on the bulls. After the winter we had, I was pleased that we were able to sell them and was pleased with the sale average, My dad came to me after the sale was over, and said that compared to what we used to get, we were not keeping up with what our costs were. At first, I was a but upset that he was putting a damper on what I considered to be a good sale, but after thinking about this for awhile, I thought that he was probably closer to right than he was wrong. You can scratch your head on lots of things today, when you consider the price of grain, price of land, price of fertilizer and spray, and price of machinery. I don't understand this either. My neighbor just bought a new JD tractor on tracks and the largest air seeder they make ( I heard it was 76 feet wide). The cost of these two pieces of machinery was $1.7 million ( Canadian dollars) Another neighbor told me the interest alone on this purchase was $500 per day. He said that the guy who bought this machinery had told him this. Now how does anyone figure this makes any sense at any price you want to put on grain crops?
Interest rates must be much higher in Canada, because with the figures you gave, your neighbor would've had to have bought that equipment with $0 down and 10.7% interest... a typical loan on $1.7M (CAD) machinery in the States would be around $280 (CAD) interest per day, assuming they had enough other collateral to avoid a down payment.

And in a quick Google search, I've noticed that the Bank of Canada rate is actually lower than the US fed fund rate by almost 1%. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on your financial institutions, but I'd say your neighbor is full of it claiming $500/day...

You are probably correct. I did not do any calculations as I have no idea what interest rates are on machinery, or anything else really. I only heard this second hand, but I have heard it now from two people, both of which are very good farmers and usually not people to make stuff up. In any event, I do know that the $1.7 million is what the price was, which by itself makes my knees weak to think about. I wish my neighbor well, but he has now purchased over $4 million in machinery in the last 6 months. One of the things I have always thought was that how differently most people consider the price of a good herd bull and most everything else we have to purchase. In 2015, we sold a bull in our sale for $32,000 which is by far the highest price I have ever received at auction. After the sale, I thanked the runner up bidder for bidding so high on my bull. He looked at me and said" I really didn't bid that much... my baler cost me more than that!  I just thought he was a good bull and deserved to sell for what he was worth". I thanks this man again and told him I liked how he thought.

30
The Big Show / Re: Looking for old Shorthorn bull pics
« on: April 12, 2019, 08:56:47 AM »
Zero chance he was a 4 1/2 frame if he indeed weighed 2400.  Though take into consideration  the embellishments that typically follow this particular storyteller. 

And $6000, in 1969, Mercy.  I was curious so had to look it up: the average annual income in both Canada and the US in 69 was between $5,800 and $6,000. With the average price of Saskatchewan farmland at the time being $60 an acre, where would a Western Canadian farmer have acquired that kind of disposable income to drop 100 times that on a bull ?

Ryan, I really don't care if you believe what I say or not.  Despite what you think, there was some pretty good prices paid back in this era for breeding stock. I have spent my entire life in this business and I do remember a few things yet. So I plead guilty to being a bit of a storyteller, even if I don't consider myself to be one. Actually, I feel very fortunate to have been able to do the only thing I ever wanted to do( and contrary to what you think, I did have to buy my farm and I paid dearly for it). I have been able to make my living from raising cattle and have never actually had another job ( other than helping others at a few sales over the years)
 I remember my parents going to the Louada sale in Ontario in 1965 and they bought a son of Bapton Constructor at $5000. Another Saskatchewan breeder also went to this sale and he bought a bull at $12,500. He also bought 3 females between $2800 and $8000. The high selling bull in this sale was $30,000, and sold to Argentina.  The high selling Shorthorn bull at the 1968 Regina Bull Sale was $8000. I still have marked catalogs for almost all of the Regina Bull Sales from the early 50s through to when the sale ended just a few years ago. For many years this was the biggest bull sale in the world, and they sold bulls for 5 days from morning to night. I remember there was over 1000 Polled Hereford bulls there one year in the 70s,  and there was 14 bulls that sold at  $10,000 or more.I think the high price that year was $45,000 and very few bulls passed in the sale. In 1976, Crestdale Super Flag 14G sold in the Shorthorn sale at Regina Bull Sale for $41,500. And just like now, many breeders would place a higher price on an animal when someone was interested in it, and they did not want to sell it too bad. This was probably the case, when we asked for a price for Red Max Prince. He priced him and my dad decided he didn't want to pay that much for him. I don't think that is such a strange thing to happen. When I look back at some of the prices back 40-50 years ago ( or more) I really don't think prices for breeding stock have kept up with how costs have increased. Even in the 1990s when we also had a Charolais herd, we sold them privately out of the yard at your pick at $3000. We  sold 12-15 Charolais bulls for several years at this price. When I think of how much our costs have risen in the last 20 years, we are not keeping up with the prices we get for breeding stock today. For several years, we sold our Charolais bulls at $3000 and did not drop our price for the last few to sell. According to a inflation conversion table, $3000 in 1990 would be $5736 in 2019 dollars. We oftentimes sold 2-3 bulls at this price to some ranchers, and I remember one Montana rancher coming and taking 6 bulls at $3000 one year. Most of us don't think of this and still think $3000 is a good price today. My dad is 94 now, and still tries to keep up with what is happening in the cattle business. He attended our bull sale in March, and we averaged $4222 on the bulls. After the winter we had, I was pleased that we were able to sell them and was pleased with the sale average, My dad came to me after the sale was over, and said that compared to what we used to get, we were not keeping up with what our costs were. At first, I was a but upset that he was putting a damper on what I considered to be a good sale, but after thinking about this for awhile, I thought that he was probably closer to right than he was wrong. You can scratch your head on lots of things today, when you consider the price of grain, price of land, price of fertilizer and spray, and price of machinery. I don't understand this either. My neighbor just bought a new JD tractor on tracks and the largest air seeder they make ( I heard it was 76 feet wide). The cost of these two pieces of machinery was $1.7 million ( Canadian dollars) Another neighbor told me the interest alone on this purchase was $500 per day. He said that the guy who bought this machinery had told him this. Now how does anyone figure this makes any sense at any price you want to put on grain crops?

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