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4306
The Big Show / Re: Kinnebar Leader 9th (Shorty people)
« on: June 12, 2007, 08:54:20 AM »
I tend to agree that Leader 9th was a more consistent sire than Leader 21st was. I saw both bulls several times and Leader 21st always was the most impressive to the eye. If I have time tonight I will scan a picture of Leader 9th and put it on this site. I have to dig through my archives ( which contains thousands of sale catalogs and magazines from the 30s on. I have a complete set of Canadian Shorthorn Herd Books from 1876 to 1944, when they were discointinued. They show every animal that was registered through those years) Here is a picture of Leader 21st that I have on my puter. It is fuzzy but hope you can see it. My 3 Leader 21st embryos have just past 6 weeks of pregnancy and so far all seem fine. I am holding my breath and hoping that they make it past the 60 days as they are usually pretty sound after that.
What did you flush to TPS Leader 21st? Whenver you get around to it thanks JustIn TIme!

We flushed our Shadybrook Presto 73G donor to Leader 21st. I have attached a picture of her taken two weeks ago. I sold 1/2 the flush to a breeder in Iowa and we implanted 3 here. Our 3 have stuck, at least so far.

4307
The Big Show / Re: Kinnebar Leader 9th (Shorty people)
« on: June 11, 2007, 01:51:16 PM »
I tend to agree that Leader 9th was a more consistent sire than Leader 21st was. I saw both bulls several times and Leader 21st always was the most impressive to the eye. If I have time tonight I will scan a picture of Leader 9th and put it on this site. I have to dig through my archives ( which contains thousands of sale catalogs and magazines from the 30s on. I have a complete set of Canadian Shorthorn Herd Books from 1876 to 1944, when they were discointinued. They show every animal that was registered through those years) Here is a picture of Leader 21st that I have on my puter. It is fuzzy but hope you can see it. My 3 Leader 21st embryos have just past 6 weeks of pregnancy and so far all seem fine. I am holding my breath and hoping that they make it past the 60 days as they are usually pretty sound after that.

4308
The Big Show / Re: Kinnebar Leader 9th (Shorty people)
« on: June 11, 2007, 08:29:35 AM »
You may be right in that Leader 9th may have had a little more muscle than his sire Leader 21st, however, I don't remember him being a bigger framed bull. Mind you , it is over 30 years since they walked on earth and there are a few other things that happened 30 years ago that is a little fuzzy. Leader 9th left some great breeding cattle in Harvey Fulton's Kenmar herd in Manitoba. He was not used as much as he should have been in the Kenmar herd as he was leased to ABS and he was in stud for a few years. Harvey never used A.I. very much. As a side note, Harvey Fulton is now about 95 years old and he still has a pasture of cows that he checks and he takes a little grain to them as a treat.He still can recite the pedigrees of each cow in the pasture.  He has not had a drivers licence for several years, and he lives in town, about two miles from the farm, but it is not problem as he owns all the land from when his home is on the edge to town to the farm, so he has his own road that he uses. The Kenmar  herd is operated by Harvey's two sons and they have about 600 cows. They still have some purebred Shorthorns but most of the herd is crossbred with Shorthorn influence. Several of todays leading cow families  originated in the Kenmar herd, such as the Myrtle Bo's, Mayflower and Minnie lines, to name a few.
Leader 9th and Leader 21st were considered big framed at the time, but they would be moderate framed today. I  would use Leader 9th on bigger framed females  as I think the offspring would be considered moderate  today. Leader 9th's dam was sired by Lynnwood Reward, who was probably the biggest framed bull ever produced in the Lynnwood herd. He came to Saskatchewan to the Butte Lee herd owned by Edgar Philpott, as he was too big to be acceptable in the show ring at the time. Edgar is now also in his mid 90s and still says Lynnwood Reward may have been the best breeding bull he ever owned. He is convinced that he was a freak, as he was so much bigger than anything else that came from that line.He still regrets that he never collected semen on Reward.  Edgar still owns quite a fewpurebred Charolais cows that he has leased out. The Butte Lee prefix also produced many excellent Charolais cattle. I saw Edgar last winter, and he quickly pulled a picture of a heifer out of his pocket, and he said, " I think I might have found the next great one. What do you think?". It was a picture of a Charolais heifer he found in a small herd, and he had just purchased her.... quite amazing as not too many other people I know are that excited about purchasing a heifer when they are nearly a century old.

4309
The Big Show / Re: Explanation of Cattle Syndication
« on: June 07, 2007, 02:57:49 PM »
  Syndication occurs in almost every sale I attend any more, and it occurs when more than two people decide to partner on a bull or female. Some of these work well, and some become textbook disasters. I have been involved in both types. The first syndication I was ever in over 30 years ago, when 10 breeders  decided to partner and buy a 10 year old bull named Four Point Major ( Massive Major) for $10,000. This syndicate actually worked as we made sure we had an agreement in writing that each partner signed and there was also a sizable semen bank that was dispersed amongst the owners right away. Each partner was entitled to use the bull naturally for a specific amount of time determined by a random draw. Although over 30 years have passed, I am still selling semen from this bull. I am now sold out and sold 70 vials this spring alone.This syndicate was probably one of the best $1000 I ever invested in the cattle industry.  I also own numerous females in syndicates but it is just as important to pick your partners as it is to pick the animal to be syndicated. Also, make sure each partner gets equal rights, as sometimes the seller of the animal will become a partner in the syndicate then expect to call all the shots after the animal is sold.  Some syndicates are no more than "executive petting rights", that is you fork out a big lump of money to become a memeber of an exclusive club that owns a cow or two..... and if you play your cards right, you may be allowed to pet her once in awhile, or maybe even get you picture taken with her. I have been in several syndiactes that have been very good to me, as they allowed me to share some risk and investment dollars with others.
If you have full trust in your partners, syndication can be a great way to add top line genetics to your herd, especially through ET and semen sales. Make sure you are very clear on what additional costs there will be and what you can expect in return.... and you have to do this before you agree to be a part of the syndicate.
   I could write a few chapters about a few of the syndicates that I have been in, that did not work.... and almost every time, it didn't work simply because of some of the people who were involved. As my gerandfather used to say.... " the more I deal with people.... the better I like cows"
Syndication is not something you should agree to without careful consideration of what the deal actually is. If possible, hand pick your partners and set up the rules and regulations early.... not as the cow approaches the sale ring to sell.

4310
The Big Show / Re: Red Cows!
« on: May 30, 2007, 02:29:12 PM »
Here is one of my favorite red cows. The first is Shadybrook Presto 73G . She is a 10 year old cow with the udder of a 3 year old. She is one of those no nonsense cows that you can't get enough of. She has become an excellent donor female for us and she now has offspring in 5 countries. I had 4 ET daughters from her last year, and I was hoping to keep some of them but we sold them all. We are implanting several embryos again this year from her and she will be flushed again tomorrow to our Leroy bull.

4311
The Big Show / Re: Another Canadian Shorthorn question
« on: May 30, 2007, 08:02:36 AM »
I have probably got about 50 vials of Super Flag semen here yet. Unfortunately, it is not exportable as it is only exportable if it remains in an AI stud. There seems to be a lot of interest in using older genetics again as I have sold quite a bit of semen from the 70s. I sold 30 vials of Super Flag to one breeder( I have sold 60 vials in total this spring) and another took 50 vials of Four Point Major - another great bull from the past. My dad says I have enough semen around to breed about 1000 cows for 3 lifetimes.... he is probably right!! .
In regards to finding Mandalong Super Flag semen in the US, check with Wally Klose, Twin Bridges, Montana as I know he has used him quite a bit in recent years. He has worked well for him as well.

4312
The Big Show / Re: Another Canadian Shorthorn question
« on: May 30, 2007, 07:53:54 AM »
I should have added that Man Sunrise was sired by Super Flag 14G who set a Canadian record when he sold for $41,500 at the Regina Bull Sale in the very early 70s. 14G was so much better than any other bull of any breed at the time, that several of the bidders were noted herds of other breeds. This was back in the days when the Regina Bull Sale was the worlds biggest bull sale with about 1400 - 1500 bulls. The sale was held for a week and there were 1000 Polled Hereford bulls alone. 14G sold to 3 Saskatchewan Shorthorn breeders. The runner up bidder was Beartooth Ranch, in Montana who was a leading Polled hereford herd at the time. Several other leading herds who raised other breeds were  still in the running at $25,000.

Man Sunrise'd mother was a very good female. She was a big framed cow but she was good with her size. She was long bodied , with thcikness and was as smooth as an apple. She was a very attractive cow and she would be a very popular cow today despite her size.

4313
The Big Show / Re: Another Canadian Shorthorn question
« on: May 30, 2007, 07:44:10 AM »
Manitoba Sunrise was a very big thick made bull. Personally, I thought his offspring had a little too much waste in their lower third  ( ie: brisket, sheath, flank). He still appears in the background of some very good cattle today, so I think he definitely had an impact. Lynn Ewald in Minnesota ( Fair Acres Stock Farm) used him extensively and I believe he may have had the US rights in Sunrise. He may work extremely well on some of today's bloodlines, especially cattle that need some more thickness and depth. Some of the Man. Sunrise daughters I remember, had some issues with their udders once they got older. Just my thoughts. Personally, I would consider him a worthy bull to be tried, if you found semen on him, but I would be a little selective on what he was used on.

4314
The Big Show / Re: opinions please
« on: May 29, 2007, 11:44:21 PM »
Major Leroy is shown here in his natural condition as he is not fat. If you put your hands on him , he is hard. He was at Alta genetics in Alberta from July to April and they said he was the only bull in the stud that they did not feed grain too as he would get too much condition . He has only seen grass hay since he returned home and he was on pasture breeding cows for about 1 month when this picture was taken. He consistently produced 1000+ straws of high quality semen per week in stud. He produced as high as 760 straws from one jump, last summer.

4315
The Big Show / Re: Rat tail defect
« on: May 29, 2007, 06:33:25 PM »
I fed cattle for about 25 years and when we started we tried to stay away from buying " rat tail " cattle as we were told that they we very poor feeders.
At almost every feeder sale I went too, there would be several of these grey rat tail steers. They were Charolais X Black Angus combinations and often times they were very thick made, attractive calves, except they had the rat tail, which was usually accompanied by short curly hair on the body.
One fall, I decided to feed one pen of 250 head of so called " zoo" cattle and compare the gains and economicsd against the so called " good feeding " cattle . We were feeding about 1500 head at the time, and the zoo pen was the most profitable pen by a long shot. We were selling all cattle on the rail so color was not an issue. Many of the rat tails were purchased for as much as a 40 cent discount, yet they gained almost as good as our very best feeder cattle. In my test the rat tails did .15 LB less per day than the so called good steers . I received the same price on the rail for all cattle if they graded and usually these second cut feeders made the grades. In this test, we made more profit from the 250 head of zoo cattle than we did the 1250 head of so-called " good feeders". From this point onwards, I was not afraid to buy rat tail calves, if they could be bought right.

Much of the profit was made in purchasing the cattle. I was told by a very experienced cattle feeder that you can make more money buying cattle than you ever will selling cattle, and this was certainly true in this case. It was almost criminal how discriminatory the cattle buyers were... and still are. I will always remember one steer in the zoo pen that I bought at a feeder sale for 8 cents a lb. He weighed 570 but was totally blind in one eye and at least partially blind in the other ( from having  pinkeye in both eyes). Once he was in the pen he learned real quick where the feed bunk was and where the water fountain was. He gained over 4.5 lb/ day and was sent to the packing plant on the first shipment out. He netted us a profit of over $550. 

4316
The Big Show / Re: Hey Ellbee!!
« on: May 29, 2007, 08:05:42 AM »
I don't have any Irish Mist embryos at this time. Maybe check with Ron Robarge, Ney, Ohio as he purchased 1/2 interest in this cow, and he has received about 30-40 embryos from her.

4317
The Big Show / Re: Hey Ellbee!!
« on: May 29, 2007, 12:15:22 AM »
I've still got the cow. I had some I.M. semen to flush her with & got 3 eggs , got 2 calves out of them with both heifers. The cow had a TPS Coronet Leader 21st heifer in November.

One of our donors is a full Irish female named Waymar J&J Strawberry 96. We flushed her to Highfield Irish Mist 3 years ago and got 28 grade 1 embryos. We have flushed her to Duke of Dublin as well as several Shorthorn sires. We have sold embryos from her to 5 countries. We are using an ET son HC Mist's Return 13R ( a son of Irish Mist) in our herd. He has the shortest gestation length we have seen in any Shorthorn bull for a long time, and this has made him an exceptional calving ease sire. We calved 31 heifers to him this spring and never saw a calf born. I even bred his ET full sister to him and she had a very nice red neck roan heifer calf that looks like she will be a keeper for sure. YOu can see him on our website at www.horseshoecreekfarms.com . Strawberry 96 will be flushed again this coming Friday, this time to Wolf Willow Major Leroy.
I also flushed  another of our donors, Shadybrook Presto 73G, to TPS Coronet Leader 21st x this spring and we got 6 grade 1 embryos. I sold 3 to Iowa and implanted 3 myself. At 6 weeks we still have 3 pregnancies, so I have my fingers and toes crossed, hoping that we keep them all.I still have enough Leader 21st for a couple more flushes.

4318
The Big Show / Re: Hey Ellbee!!
« on: May 26, 2007, 10:22:32 PM »
I've still got the cow. I had some I.M. semen to flush her with & got 3 eggs , got 2 calves out of them with both heifers. The cow had a TPS Coronet Leader 21st heifer in November.

One of our donors is a full Irish female named Waymar J&J Strawberry 96. We flushed her to Highfield Irish Mist 3 years ago and got 28 grade 1 embryos. We have flushed her to Duke of Dublin as well as several Shorthorn sires. We have sold embryos from her to 5 countries. We are using an ET son HC Mist's Return 13R ( a son of Irish Mist) in our herd. He has the shortest gestation length we have seen in any Shorthorn bull for a long time, and this has made him an exceptional calving ease sire. We calved 31 heifers to him this spring and never saw a calf born. I even bred his ET full sister to him and she had a very nice red neck roan heifer calf that looks like she will be a keeper for sure. YOu can see him on our website at www.horseshoecreekfarms.com . Strawberry 96 will be flushed again this coming Friday, this time to Wolf Willow Major Leroy.
I also flushed  another of our donors, Shadybrook Presto 73G, to TPS Coronet Leader 21st x this spring and we got 6 grade 1 embryos. I sold 3 to Iowa and implanted 3 myself. At 6 weeks we still have 3 pregnancies, so I have my fingers and toes crossed, hoping that we keep them all.I still have enough Leader 21st for a couple more flushes.

4319
The Big Show / Re: opinions please
« on: May 26, 2007, 10:10:17 PM »
I think the progeny pictured would scare me a little.
What is so scarry to you about the calves? If you go to Wolf Willow Shorthorns' website, you will see better pictures of his progeny. Better yet, understand that Dale Rocker still has a few Shorthorn cows, and Seaman daughters outnumber the Eagle daughters and grandaughters in his herd, at the present time. Just wishing for the day when function outweighs flash in the Shorthorn Business. Remember---reproductively efficient cattle are slightly heavier fronted, deeper-bodied, sounder-structured, etc. Too many generations of ultra-clean-fronted cattle results in reproductive failure. Especially here in the Ozarks.We just don't grow corn Silage and Alfalfa Hay!! "Feminine" beef brood cows should not equate phenotypically to  cattle that have necks like Guernsey steers, or Suffolk market lambs!!!!!

Too often people confuse femininity with fraility. I really question if some breeders even know what the word femininity should mean. If a female calves regularly in lerss than 12 months throughout her life, and is able to maintain herself without a lot of assistance from the owner.... can she be considered feminine ? Or does femininity only refer to a body type, rather than refer to a females fertility and production record? To me, some of the females that are referred to as being really feminine .,... are nothing more than really frail... and you better be willing to keep them in the spare bedroom or they will be history before they see their third calf arrive.

4320
The Big Show / Re: opinions please
« on: May 26, 2007, 05:21:09 PM »
Stick, personally I like his looks but I know nothing about Canadian Shorthorn bloodlines.
What are you thinking of using him on?

Red

I now own possession in Major Leroy and we had our first crop of calves from him this spring. Quite frankly, they are very impressive calves. I personally feel that every Leroy calf is going to be better than it's dam in as far as thickness, fleshing ability, capacity and structural soundness. We pulled him from pasture early last summer when we sold the world semen rights in Leroy to Semex International, as they wanted him to go to stud. Despite this, we got an impressive set of calves from him, and we could not be more pleased.
Semex officials stated that Major Leroy may be the best structured bull in their entire beef line-up. He has tremendous feet and legs and is extremely free moving. He is moderate framed and he puts a butt on each and every calf. His calves have good fronts and his boys look like linemen and his girls look like the cheerleaders.
We have calves from several leading sires in the Shorthorn breed and our Leroy calves are our favorite sire group. His calves also have tremendous hair. If you have cows that need to be downsized for frame, and need some extra thickness or fleshing ability, I think Leroy desires your consideration. We are so impressed that we are using him extensively in our ET program. I also purchased Leroy's dam when I purchased Leroy, and she is an absoolute tank on a moderate frame. She is an impressive female.
Leroy also is very good in so many functional areas. He is a tremendous semen producer and he has probably the best temperment I have ever seen in a bull. I am certain he is passing this on to his offspring as they are very quiet and easy to work with.


JIT - welcome - we have missed you!
genes - you mean Canadian show cattle could actually work in the field too? Incredible!! ;D
DL
ps I am cheering for Ottawa to squish the ducks


The picture of Major leroy that is shown in the Semex catalog was taken on the day I pulled him from pasture to go to stud. He had run with 55 cows for 2 months and he was still in the same shape that he was when he went to pasture.  He is an amazing easy fleshing bull and his calves appear to be the same. This is a trait most of us will have to think more about if grain continues to go up in price. In regards to the comment about Canadian show cattle actually working in the field too..... I think we all need some more cattle that can make it in the real world once their show carriers are over. My grandfather used to say that there often was a difference between showing breeding cattle and breeding show cattle. This was probably never as true as in today's cattle industry.

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