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The Big Show / Re: Gainsford Shorthorns
« on: August 27, 2013, 10:23:32 PM »
I browsed through a bunch of Shorthorn Worlds from the 50s and 60s this afternoon.  The images and ads from days past are always interesting!

The Big Show / Re: WF Ideal Irish info??
« on: August 27, 2013, 09:27:50 PM »
Finally tracked down the sale catalog.  It's not too hard to see some similarities in the Breathless and Nightmare cow, especially the rear third and the hooks to pins set.

To have a perfect animal, you should be able to breed brothers to sisters and sons to mothers and fathers to daughters repeatedly with no anomalies in phenotype or function for generation after generation, and to out-crosses. 

Why wait for a test?  Get ahead of the game.  Be a pioneer.  A reproductive pioneer guru.  Though you may not have any breeding stock, I'm sure that many will applaud your efforts.

It wouldn't be pioneering anything as it has been done in multiples species and numerous breeds for decades, if not centuries.

Multiple closed herd farms raise their own bulls and heifers and turn them back into the groups they came from with no consideration of how many half sisters are in the group or if the bull is their father or uncle.  If anything, it's probably becoming slightly more popular than it was a few short years ago.

Some of the greatest bird dog lines in the world are so tight it would scare a lot of people.  Many of the old fox hound lines across the pond were very tight as well.  Unfortunately some of these lines die with their breeders as today's society is not as accepting to "man's best friend" being managed in such a way.

Several commercial sow lines pushed their litter numbers and loin eye size up using multiple generations of tight breeding across large numbers of animals.  Culling in the farrowing house and prior to 7 days of age due to phenotype is not unusual.  Good cheap pork that tastes exactly the same as the last one you bought has come at a cost, most people just don't know, or care, what the cost was.  The commercial poultry industry's methods for producing cheap high quality consistent protein has taken genetic selection and progression to a level the beef industry could never attain.

The beef industry is in direct competition for the same space on the plate as the pork and poultry industry while dealing with obstacles the other industries can work around much faster.  There is no reason to place another "fear of the carrier" hurdle on the track to slow the industry down even more.  Finding it, managing it, and progressing on should be the goal.  Getting scared and slitting the throat of otherwise perfectly good genetics is counter productive to keeping beef on the plate of people who have cheaper options. 

The Big Show / Re: Cool Customer Heifer
« on: August 24, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »
What is she weighing in those pics?

The Big Show / Re: Polymelia in Angus cattle
« on: August 23, 2013, 05:37:58 PM »
I really think this attitude is a mistake. What you are basically doing is single trait selection. We all know single trait selection is not optimal.
If you breed the trait leader for your favorite trait, how would you feel if the AAA said you couldn't register the calf?
I argue to manage the defect with testing and select it out of our breeds over generations, not in one fell swoop.

I'll toss an example in here.

The greatest competitive Labrador retriever to ever live has been found to be one of the earliest sources for a genetic defect.  A lot of breeders marked him, his sons, & grandsons, who were nearly all carriers due to extensive line breeding, totally off their potential sire lists.  The breeders who had figured the condition out years before the genetic test was developed laughed at the rest of the breed when they tried to "cull" his lines.  Now there are two more genetic defects and the breeders who culled the first defect are trying to figure out how many "clean" sire lines the competitive Labrador world even has because there are rumors of two more tests coming down the pipe.  The breeders who refused to "cull at all costs" are laughing all the way to the bank, producing better dogs than ever, and still winning purple at a high rate while the bunch who went off the deep end are spinning in circles from fear of carriers.

I basically agree with you.  Carriers are physically healthy and have the potential to be very valuable.  Genetic tests make breeding around a defect, or defects, fairly easy for anyone with a basic understanding of genetics.  There is no reason to panic and slit the throat of very valuable bloodlines that can be cleaned up with a simple test when the "clean" bloodlines could very well be the next "dirty" line in a few years.

The Big Show / Re: WF Ideal Irish info??
« on: August 22, 2013, 11:36:02 PM »
Those about have to be them Oakview.  While searching through the pile of old sale catalogs I've remembered Don ribbing me about it being the first time I was old enough to drive to the sale on my own, so that would have had to of been in '98 or '99.  I still haven't found the sale catalog with them in it, but I just stumbled upon the 1998 Wankle Farm's Brite Lites sale catalog where WF Ideal Irish sold in lot 1 & 1a.

The Big Show / WF Ideal Irish info??
« on: August 22, 2013, 11:51:43 AM »
I see there is some shorthorn knowledge on the board so I hope I've came to the right place.

I've been out of the game for awhile and am blowing the dust off the list of what's left to play with and found some WF Ideal Irish x Breathless 1205 embryos.  They almost had to have come from one of Cagwin's sales.  I can vaguely remember what the bull looked like but can't seem to find a picture of WF Ideal Irish or any info on where he went and how his calves were.  I see what would be two sibs and some maternal half sibs in the registry, but their names aren't leading me to any images.  Can anyone point me to an image of him or give me an idea of what he and the cow line were like?     

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