A Sire Line

Took some pictures this morning of our 3 herd bulls.They are coming 6,4,2,Sire,son and grandson.Anyone else doing this?I would be interested in hearing about your program.Warning these cattle are not in show condition.

Gary they look great!  And they are close enough to show condition for me. I wish you would price that 6 year old, and let me take him off your hands!  (Just to help you cut down on your work load of course!)

I have not done what you are doing but have gone part way in this direction. The only reason I haven't done this is because many of our bull buyers expect us to keep bringing out bulls with new genetics for them to use in their herds. One of our best bull buyers has now purchased 18 bulls in the past decade and he always asked what we have for bulls that are not related to what he has purchased in the past. For this reason, I have sold a few bulls that I would loved to have kept and used myself. Right now I am using one sire and two sons of his, but I have a very good grand son of him that I would really like to use as well. I hesitate to do this as I may just set up a situation where a major bull buyer starts to buy someplace else.
I really do appreciate what you are doing with your program and it is good to see someone how actually has a breeding program and is not just a follower of what some others are doing.

Thanks Grant,My workload is really fairly light right now,I hope my wife does not see this ;D

I would think this would be tough to do....wouldn't they be breeding daughter sisters aunts etc.......

Yes it is a close breeding scenario, the benefit is that you as a breeder can find out a lot quicker if you are going down the right path.TH for example did not show up until breeders started stacking old improver, most unknowingly.The most important thing is to start with animals that are as close to your ideal as possible.The customer reaps the greatest benefit from a program like this and theoretically that should be good for business.

Yes that is true, but you had better be dang sure there aren't any holes!

It's more like if you find a hole you get rid of it.

Limiman12 said:

Yes that is true, but you had better be dang sure there aren't any holes!

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In the not very distant past breeders line bred cattle this way to get rid of any genetic defects that showed themselves. We have gotten away from the practice and maybe possibly why we have so many defects popping up now along with the fact that we are getting better at detection.

I turned out two full brothers last summer. Some of the cows they were breeding were paternal sisters. Some were daughters of their full brother. 15 calves on the ground now and no defects have showed up. I am a little worried that this is to close of linebreeding.......but I think it will work.

aj said:

I turned out two full brothers last summer. Some of the cows they were breeding were paternal sisters. Some were daughters of their full brother. 15 calves on the ground now and no defects have showed up. I am a little worried that this is to close of linebreeding.......but I think it will work.

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I think you're on the right track.  It was Jim Lent from OK that said every year he would retain his best bull calf-regardless of his relation to the herd- and use him on his cows the following year.  That might be a pretty good approach.

They all look like the same bull, Gary-  mission accomplished!

Good job Gary! You can sure see the consistency in the 3 bulls!

I've done some of this with my DRC based females with pleasing results at least on the female side. It is difficult at times to convince people of the bull "type" that most consistently produces these good females however. From what I see, you certainly have a cow herd worth replicating through line-breeding.

I AI'd most of the CPL6th daughters back to their sire last spring. It's early yet, but so far the results look very promising. My plan is to put their yearling 1/2 brother (who is out of a 7 year old cow that meets my near "ideal" i.e. udder, feet/legs, CE, mothering instinct, disposition, etc), back on them this Spring. I will try to get some pictures of the offspring from the sire/daughter matings over the weekend. My belief is that this is the way to build consistent predictability in ones own herd. It is no short-term project!
 

Great, all three, but I really like the extra length on the top bull.  From the pictures, that is!

AJ,It would be interesting to see if you get any consistent variances between the 2 full brothers offspring.I am thinking back to the 2 Byland full brothers where one was a trait leader and the other was at the opposite end of the spectrum.I would think in your case the chances for something like that would be diminished since the dams are related.Is this your Durham Red program or are these all Shorthorn.
Thanks XBAR,The Lents program has always interested me.If there is such a thing he has to be into the easier part of a linebreeding program as many generations as he has behind him.
Thank you Ralph.I like your plan and the fact that you have one and greatly appreciate your selection criteria.You touched on one of the most foundational aspects of a line breeding program and that is having a proven superior individual or line worth concentrating in your herd.Please post those pictures.

Thanks for your compliment Duncraggen.It's the old we are dealing with pictures and different poses.Proportionately I feel the bulls are very close in their length.The 2nd bull is the bull in my avatar to give you a different perspective.Also I would say that the 2 year old exhibits the most length of all 3 at this stage of the game although marginal.

r.n.reed said:

Thanks for your compliment Duncraggen.It's the old we are dealing with pictures and different poses.Proportionately I feel the bulls are very close in their length.The 2nd bull is the bull in my avatar to give you a different perspective.Also I would say that the 2 year old exhibits the most length of all 3 at this stage of the game although marginal.

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Just been on your website, pictures in 'Herdsires' section prove your point beautifully!  Will be intersting to see how the youngster develops then.

Very nice Gary. It's as if the grand son is a crossbred. I think it's working! I am thinking about trying this with Renegade progeny.

So if you line breed that tight, and find a recessive defect that is now In Your whole herd.......... 

I just bought a Duroc boar to cross on my York sows. The boars mother was for sake as well. The seller said well you can't buy both of them obviously. I said I'll take them both. I'm
Going to practice my line breeding in hogs while I save up
For cows again.

Great looking cows mr reed.
Mr Larson , I'm excited to read your breeding choices. Keep us updated.

-XBAR- said:

aj said:

I turned out two full brothers last summer. Some of the cows they were breeding were paternal sisters. Some were daughters of their full brother. 15 calves on the ground now and no defects have showed up. I am a little worried that this is to close of linebreeding.......but I think it will work.

Click to expand...

I think you're on the right track.  It was Jim Lent from OK that said every year he would retain his best bull calf-regardless of his relation to the herd- and use him on his cows the following year.  That might be a pretty good approach.

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But that would eliminate the promotion and commotion of the new hot bull we must all sample.