Beef industry variations in different countries

We had a great visit with a Scottish breeder today who stopped in to see our cattlle. He has been here several times over the years, so it was great to see him again and to find out what is happening across the pond. When I asked him how things were in Britain, he replied that the Shorthorn breed is seeing unprecedented popularity in Britain. This man raises mostly Angus cattle along with a few Shorthorns, and he said that Shorthorn popularity almost appears to have no upper limit. We had a lengthy discussion as to what was fueling this trend in Britain and he said that there were several reasons for it. In his opinion, he said that Shorthorns were the perfect choice to add to their national cowherd  of mostly European breed base. Not only were Shorthorn genetics adding fleshing ability and carcass quality, but they were also improving maternal traits such as milking ability, fertility and disposition. Another reason he said, was the fact that one of the largest grocery chains in Britain had decided to promote the fact that they would only sell Shorthorn beef in their stores. This chain has gone so far as to pay a huge premium ( of well over $100 per head.. I converted from British pounds to dollars) for Shorthorn beef animals. This has resulted in more and more commerical producers looking for Shorthorn bulls to turn with their cows.

Of course, this discussion was music to my ears, as I am a Shorthorn breeder, but it also made me think about how different policies in different countries affected our beef industry. In the US,the CAB program has been a run away success story, and black hided cattle are king. It always amuses me to see signs in resturants that state that they only serve Angus beef, and I suspect most of the people working in these establishments probably couldn't identify an Angus animal if they had too. They have bought into the thought process that Angus beef is the best beef. I give full marks to the Angus breed for running one of the greatest promotional stategies in beef history. Here is Canada, black hided cattle are still popular but they don't control the marketplace as they once did. Any animal of any color can top a market on any given day, if it looks like it will gain efficently and produce a highly marbled carcass. I suspect that in each of these three countries, the goals of the beef industry are similar, that being the production of a beef animal that grows quickly and produces a healthy, tender, tasty food choice for their consumers. The differences are created by breed promotion and spin developed by industry leaders. Another thing about this story that I find very interesting is the amazing turn around made by the Shorthorn breed in Britain. Less than 3 decades ago, the Shorthorn breed in Britain was placed on the endangered breeds list, as their numbers had dropped to very small numbers. Today they are the fastest growing breed in Britain.   So, I guess the moral of this story, is that there is always hope that some things will change.

And if you think we have strong beef markets here, today in Britain an average cull cow will bring $3000 or more. Commercial bulls oftentimes sell for $10,000-$15,000 ( again I did the conversions to dollars). If we could ever see a beef market similar to this, some may not have to be as reliant on their day jobs!

What does a day job have to do with anything? I know you have bragged that you have never had to work for anyone but yourself.......I don't know of anybody that even thinks like this. I guess if you had a bunch handed to you thats great. Its almost a little narcisist it seems to me.

aj said:

What does a day job have to do with anything? I know you have bragged that you have never had to work for anyone but yourself.......I don't know of anybody that even thinks like this. I guess if you had a bunch handed to you thats great. Its almost a little narcisist it seems to me.

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aj... all I meant was that if we had cattle markets like they have in Britain,it may be a bit easier to make ends meet. I know of all kinds of people in this business who tell me that they only work off the farm because they have too. That was all I was saying. Oh.. and by the way, I have had absolutely nothing handed to me in any way.I have had to pay for my farm, and my cattle by myself. If you only had any idea of what a ride it has been!!!
I sincerely apologize to anyone who thinks like aj, that I am making light of having an off farm job
as never my intention. I was just trying to make the point that the beef industry is a totally different game in some other parts of the world like in Britain. where people in food production are treated like the upper class. In many ways I admire people who work off the farm as I am amazed as to how they do everything. I have had to make many decisions in this regard, as working off the farm meant we would have to make some major changes to our operation. It would have meant we would have to greatly reduce our herd numbers and probably rent some of our hay and pastures out. I have turned down some very interesting job offers over the years, as this is where I wanted to be. I have no regrets . In many ways, it would have been much easier if I had taken work off the farm.
Everyone has to make decisions as to how they can survive and get ahead. I don't judge anyone by what they do, to do this.

And as per uusual, aj seems to have completely missed the main point of what I was trying to make here. Please forget the last couple of sentences in my original post as they aren't the focus of starting this thread anyways.

As per usual I don't get it. Are we (United States) supposed to try and be like England? We would need a king and queen then? I'm part irish and part Scottish.......maybe we a chain store like Mcdonalds that sells Shorthorn meat while the bagpipppers walk around and play?

After reading the original post a couple times........to me......it is written like a press release. JIT wanted to draw attention to himself and the fact that he had a Scottish visitor. Nothing wrong with promotion. Couldn't see that any point was made. I thought there were 2 interesting facts in the release. That shorties were placed on an endangered breed status? Who keeps track of endangered breeds in Britian? And the cull prices of 3,000$ cow and the ole 15,000$ commercial bulls. Sounds like a place with an ivory tower?jmo

aj said:

What does a day job have to do with anything? I know you have bragged that you have never had to work for anyone but yourself.......I don't know of anybody that even thinks like this. I guess if you had a bunch handed to you thats great. Its almost a little narcisist it seems to me.

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if we had your cattle, we could all have day jobs as they take care of themselves.  too bad there aren't enough to go around.  talk about narcissist.

lots of cattle people i know have day jobs.  in fact, most of them do.

"narcissism" usually is used to describe some kind of problem in a person or group's relationships with self and others.

i really fail to see any relationship problems JIT has with anyone.  on the other hand.....

aj said:

As per usual I don't get it. Are we (United States) supposed to try and be like England? We would need a king and queen then? I'm part irish and part Scottish.......maybe we a chain store like Mcdonalds that sells Shorthorn meat while the bagpipppers walk around and play?

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aj... I agree that you don't seem to get it!  Maybe because in my original post there is nothing to get. I assure you that drawing attention to myself was the last thing on my mind.. on second thought, it never even entered my mind. I was simply relating a conversation I had because I thought it was a bit interesting. I see nothing wrong with looking at what people in the beef industry do in other countries, in fact I think it is kind of important part of keeping our countries share of export markets. I never suggested that any of us should try to be like Britain, and I would be foolish to even suggest that, as it is a totally different system that probably won't work in North America. I posted this as no more than general information that might possibly be of passing interest to a few readers.
To many cattle producers, the world is their marketplace today. International shipment of genetics is becoming an extremely important part of some producers breeding programs. If this is the case, I would suggest any producer should know a little about the beef industry in a country they want to market into.
Again aj... you don't have to " get" anything from my post. There is nothing for you " to get". This thread is general information trivia that may or may not be of any interest to any reader. End of discussion.

It would be very cool if the british shorthorn trend would work its way across the pond! Could handle the prices as well! Interesting considering the fear of global recession and all that. My father has taught me to look over the fence to see what the neighbour is doing. Especially if he is successful at it; you might learn something. So yes, I like to know what's happening in other countries as well as in my own. And my husband works off the farm 6 days a week. So yah, being able to get rid of that or at least to work less days for someone else is something we dream about. Thanks for the post JIT! (thumbsup)

The Aussie Shorthorn bull sales have been awsesome this year, actually all breeds there have been having strong sales. I wish it would happen here too because I would love to focus on the cattle and say good bye to my day job!  <beer>

AJ--if you see JIT has posted something please just ignore it and go on to another post.     All of us realize that for some unknown reason you don't like JIT.    Your complete disdain for anything that JIT posts was apparent a long time ago.   It got really tedious then and its still tedious now.   Please just move on to something you actually do like and ignore anything JIT says---I'm sure we'll all appreciate the lack of venom and it won't bother JIT at all!!

Okotoks said:

The Aussie Shorthorn bull sales have been awsesome this year, actually all breeds there have been having strong sales. I wish it would happen here too because I would love to focus on the cattle and say good bye to my day job!  <beer>

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General disclaimer  The following comments are in no way intended to draw attention to myself or my breeding program. They are general comments about some of my experiences and nothing more)

It has been very interesting to follow the Aussie bull sales in all breeds. Pretty exciting sales and some pretty impressive cattle from what I have seen so far.

Some people are already predicting that bull sales here will be stronger than in a long time this winter and next spring. I hope they are correct.

Up until two weeks ago, I had two yearling bulls left here, other than two that I kept here as herd bulls. About two weeks ago, I received an email asking if we had any bulls for sale. My first reaction was that this was a rather strange time for someone to be turning a bull out, but then I thought that there are some people starting to calve some in the fall to spread out their calving as well as their calf sales . I replied with some information on both bulls as well as pictures. This producer came over to look at the bulls and he said he liked them both. I asked him if he was fall calving and he said that he wasn't, and that he would not be turning this bull out until next July. He then said that he felt that bull sales were going to be very high next spring, and seeing that he wanted to turn a two year old bull out that he thought he would try to find a good bull now. He said that he had lots of feed and a pen he could keep the bull so he felt he could save some money. ( I couldn't help but think that this guy was a forward thinker and was probably very smart in his thinking as well).

A few days after he took his bull home, one of his neighbours called and asked if he could come and see the remaining bull. Long story shorter.. he had been visiting with his neighbour and decided he should probably do the same thing. As a side note, neither of these guys had ever used a Shorthorn bull before, but both mentioned that their father's had used an occasional Shorthorn bull over 30 years ago, and the females in their herds that still showed some Shorthorn characteristics were consistently their better producing cows ( Ie: roan coloration or brockel faced). If these market conditons continue through to next spring, we could see some amazing bull sales. When I was in Indiana last week, I had two people tell me that they had sold cull cows for over $1500. My dad was talking with a commercial producer just across the line from us in Montana, and he said that he had sold a set of 450 weight steers for $2.08/ lb. These prices are higher than I have seen here in Canada, but it gives a person hope for the future. I thought my neighbour had done very well when he sold 910 average grasser steers for 1.38/ lb!

Okotoks said:

The Aussie Shorthorn bull sales have been awsesome this year, actually all breeds there have been having strong sales. I wish it would happen here too because I would love to focus on the cattle and say good bye to my day job!  <beer>

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Indeed they've been fantastic. The other day, 2-year-old Speckle Parks averaged $8900 (yearlings didn't sell so well). And the final Merawah Poll Hereford bull sale also averaged well over $8000.
Ram sales, particularly Merinos, appear to be doing the same thing.
<party> <beer>

aj said:

What does a day job have to do with anything? I know you have bragged that you have never had to work for anyone but yourself.......I don't know of anybody that even thinks like this. I guess if you had a bunch handed to you thats great. Its almost a little narcisist it seems to me.

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Wow

What the heck is the endangered breed list in England. Who comprises it? Is it a state run organization that drives around and does reports on cow numbers? Or is it a breed group of some kind?

Last year we noticed bull sales were up in Manitoba. We had decided to by our own shorthorn bull that we owned 100% instead of sharing with a couple of guys. We went to a few sales and noticed prices were up by 500-1000 bucks per head on average. We need to buy a new black angus this year and we are pretty  sure its the price is still rising. We may not buy if the price is too high, and end up renting again.....We've also been shopping now already to see if we can get something before the prices really jump. Of course, we may be completely wrong but our gut says bulls sales will be big next spring

Rare breed foundation and organizations are an attempt to preserve genetic diversity. This is a concern in plant and animal strains.

http://www.rbst.org.uk/watch-list/cattle

Does Britain know that there are cattle outside of Britain? England has 800,000 beef cows........about the same as Iowa. Cherry county Nebraska runs 166,000 beef cows. I take it Shorthrons didn't go extinct in Britain then.

No Shorthorns in Britain did not go extinct. They imported bulls,heifers, semen and embryos from Canada and semen from Australia to up their purebred numbers.

aj said:

Does Britain know that there are cattle outside of Britain? England has 800,000 beef cows........about the same as Iowa. Cherry county Nebraska runs 166,000 beef cows. I take it Shorthrons didn't go extinct in Britain then.

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I would suspect that the Brits know much more about the beef industry in North America than any of us here know about them. The British government does a super job of promoting agriculture to their population, and it is quite amazing how much home grown food ( including beef) that is grown on a small land area for a very large population. I'm always quite amazed as to how much knowledge the Brits and Aussies have about Bloodlines in Canada and the US.

I think it's interesting to look at how other countries cattle industries work. There are always some lessons to be learned. I hope see the Canadian shorthorns develop the commercial market they have in Australia and then grow the % more! Some of you are laughing and spewing your coffee but he who laughs last.............
Here is that Weebollabolla bull photo I posted on another thread.
I love this photo (thumbsup)