Bull for Soundness

I have a Ali daughter (75% Maine)  that is tight in her structure and heavy muscled.  She just calfed a 108# bull out of a BK Excalibur son.  The calf is also a little too strait legged for me also.  I need some suggestions on a bull that has work for ya'll to free up straiter structured cows, also with a lower BW.  I was thinking about Gigilo Joe...Thanks in advance.

From what i have seen and heard Gjoe can make them to straight on the back legs also if crossed with the wrong cows.  Ali himself is very straight in the hock but has some set to his hind pasterns.  Alot of the maine bulls today and clubby bulls are straight in the hind legs and many cripple up and dont last long because of this. 
Off the top of my head i cant think of a maine bull to breed to a cow that is a little straight.  If you dont want to stay maine you could use a simmental or sim angus or there is a few clubby bulls that could work.

Also I have heard that gj can throw a big one just like all the other maine bulls and clubby bulls.  Talked to a guy a few weeks ago that had some gj calves that weighed 90 to just over 100 on first calf heifers.  Of course half of it is the heifers contribution to bw but that is why i breed all mine to angus the first year. 

TexasHeat said:

I have a Ali daughter (75% Maine)  that is tight in her structure and heavy muscled.  She just calfed a 108# bull out of a BK Excalibur son.  The calf is also a little too strait legged for me also.  I need some suggestions on a bull that has work for ya'll to free up straiter structured cows, also with a lower BW.  I was thinking about Gigilo Joe...Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

Your Ali heifer sounds alot like ours. We have a 50% Ali heifer pretty tight, so we decided to go with GJ and the result turned out really good I think.  She calved a 68 lb heifer without a hitch. The picture i attached for ya is her heifer calve, hopefully this will help ya in your decision.

So there is no Maine bull that has sound offspring? If this is true, what a breed!

Try some of the GVC bulls. Maverick ,Dignitary, special delivery,statesman

DTW said:

From what i have seen and heard Gjoe can make them to straight on the back legs also if crossed with the wrong cows.  Ali himself is very straight in the hock but has some set to his hind pasterns.  Alot of the maine bulls today and clubby bulls are straight in the hind legs and many cripple up and dont last long because of this. 
Off the top of my head i cant think of a maine bull to breed to a cow that is a little straight.  If you dont want to stay maine you could use a simmental or sim angus or there is a few clubby bulls that could work.

Also I have heard that gj can throw a big one just like all the other maine bulls and clubby bulls.  Talked to a guy a few weeks ago that had some gj calves that weighed 90 to just over 100 on first calf heifers.  Of course half of it is the heifers contribution to bw but that is why i breed all mine to angus the first year. 

Click to expand...

We have not yet seen an unsound Gigolo Joe calf.  The bull is now four years old and is perfectly sound.  As far as working on Ali daughters, ABS is promoting the bull as the thing to use on Ali daughters because that is turning out to be a fantastic cross.  We think the bull is going to be the go to bull on crossed up, straight made clubby heifers because he is so sound himself.  He will put the softness and soundness into those hard made, questionably sound females.  Sorry to chime in but I had to defend our bull when he was accused of unsoundness.  The bull would not be at our place if he was siring unsound calves.  In fact, around here we say he is HOMOZYGOUS SOUND.

Brad Nelson

I knew there were sound Maines! I think I am going to order some sexed semen!

Thanks a lot Brad,

I should have went with G-Joe on the first go, but I did not have the resources at the time.  This was her first calf.  I am defiantly going to breed her in 43 days to G-Joe, Thanks CUTK for the pic.  Thanks again Brad for the awesome G-Joe Hat, everyone around here wants to know where I got it. 

Has anyone posted anything about the Maine bull, Sooner or Later? He looks pretty nice.

I believe that this is an excellent thread, and should give all of us Maine people something to think about. I believe that more and more Maine and clubby bulls are being bred too straight on both front and rear legs. I also believe the owners when they say G Joe is totally sound. I think he is a very good bull, but he seems to end up in every Maine thread. I am ready to hear about some other totally sound Maine bulls. If there are none of the above, it doesn't speak very well for the breed. I'm sure not trying to start a fight, but am really interested in some other good sound bulls and bloodlines. Please tell me what you think. Earl

dr. who gave me one of the soundest steer calves i have ever had. moved like a dream. all the judges said that about him too. but i have always had kadabra and paddy o malley calves that have been both powerful and moved super smooth.

Dirty Hairy, Open Bar, Mitten Man, Tyson, Dr Who are a few Maines I have experience with and no structure problem whatsoever. I love the assumption here that you can keep a crippled cow, breed her to a sound bull, get a crippled calf then blame the bull. Junk + Great a lot of times equals junk.

DTW said:

From what i have seen and heard Gjoe can make them to straight on the back legs also if crossed with the wrong cows.  Ali himself is very straight in the hock but has some set to his hind pasterns.  Alot of the maine bulls today and clubby bulls are straight in the hind legs and many cripple up and dont last long because of this. 
Off the top of my head i cant think of a maine bull to breed to a cow that is a little straight.  If you dont want to stay maine you could use a simmental or sim angus or there is a few clubby bulls that could work.

Also I have heard that gj can throw a big one just like all the other maine bulls and clubby bulls.  Talked to a guy a few weeks ago that had some gj calves that weighed 90 to just over 100 on first calf heifers.  Of course half of it is the heifers contribution to bw but that is why i breed all mine to angus the first year. 

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you get your information, but we have not ever bred to a Maine bull that we HAD structure problems on, talk about bashing a breed.  We have calves out of Dr. Who, Hard Core, Irish Whiskey, Money Man, Gigolo Joe, Lamborgini, and the list goes on and on, sorry Earl, but I think you are misinformed, the reason Joe shows up in so many Maine threads is because he is also calving ease and that is something there are few of in the Maine breed, it has nothing to do with structure issues good or bad.
We have had 3 GJ calves ourselves out of 3 different cow types all with perfect structure, I don't know who you're talking to, but I have never seen a GJ calf that was anything close too straight.

I don't think they were bashing the breed per say but I agree with them in that there are alot of unsound clubby bulls out there that just take a picture but that being said there are some real good sound ones too, every breed has it.  Every bull can throw an unsound one, none of them are fool proof.  I dont see alot of clubby calves but i have seen some super straight irish whiskeys and some unsound ones out of other bulls listed too.  All that being said i still breed to irish whiskey on some cows, you just have to watch the leg set on the cow your breeding them to as is a case with alot of cattle.  You can't mate an unsound cow with a sound bull and get  a super sound calf every time it just wont happen. Just my two cents

I agree, the cow plays a big role and probably not too many bulls will sire a 100% correct calf crop on structurally compromised type cows. It's one of the most difficult problems to breed out, IMO.

I've seen Dr. Who's, Kadabra's, Reflector's, Energizer genetics that were severely unsound or too straight and the list goes on. I do think it's inbreeding somebody (probably more then one) in those pedigrees too close, but it is an unscientific guess.

...Some of those were SP calves which may be something completely different.

Sorry, I sure didn't mean to offend anyone, but I love cattle and the cattle business. I look at a lot of them, and have noticed a lot of them that are too straight. I also don't believe that one that is too straight is unsound, but it sure can be. I have seen many that are too straight from Kadabra, Haed Core, Money Man, Dr. Who ( not really a Maine, but mentioned in this thread ) as well as several others. I have not seen many from Mitten Man or G Joe, but I have yet to see one that I felt was too straight. Please mention some more bulls that you feel are above average for soundness. Thanks

To correct myself, Dr. Who is a 37.50 registered Maintainer bull, bred to a PB cow he will give you a 3/4 and above calf, that is why I put him on the list.
I guess the point I am making is we don't have unsound cows, when you breed to sound purebred cows it makes for different results than say breeding to crossed up genetic problems, you can't blame everything that happens on the bull.  I don't argue, there are some clubby bulls that should have been steers, but as long as people continue to use them and judges continue to use them that is the way the clubby direction will point. There are thousands of bulls in the Maine Anjou breed and I guess I just don't like to generalize a breed based on a couple of bulls that may be too straight.  You hear a lot on this board about GJ because he is calving ease and he has some friends on this board, that doesn't make him right for everyone or every situation, but I certainly don't question his soundness.

Jill, I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make about G Joe. I never had a doubt that he was a sound bull. I just meant that he was mentioned a lot. I was really asking for some other bulls to add to my sound list. I also was not trashing the breed by any means, but I still feel that many of the highly promoted bulls are plenty straight. So many of the present promo bulls are bred close to Habanero, and while I like him well enough, I don't feel that he helps the rear legs a lot. I like Mitten Man, Open Bar and G Joe, but I still want more ideas. Please give me more.

Have to agree with VJ and wright-way. I think to many peaple expect miricles out of the bulls, cause it no way, no how could possibly be the cows fault. Until you give a bull a GOOD test, 10-20 head, imo is a good test, you relly don't know how consistant he is, Cows the same way, I think its entertaining how many cows get flushed that have never had one, or have only ever had ONE, OR how good that ONE looked in the dead pile!!  There is no perfect one, not for everyone, in every situation.  (argue) ;D

Sound Maine bulls (also clean)
Topper
DJ Patent
Impact (in my hands)
Witch Doctor (again in my hands)
WD40
Pistol Pete
Pollstar
DMCC Gold Medallion
Polleroid
Taz (half blood Maine)
Midas
Magic

I think the combination of the show ring, the ability to register anything (with the consequence that there is no breed characteristics) and the rampant propagation of carrier genetics has done some bad things for the reputation and potential future of what was once a grand breed.