Calves born with rear leg issues

Shghmh · Apr 12, 2013

We have had 2 or 3 calves now that are born not being able to use one of it's rear legs. The last one was around 120# out of Choppin Wood. We calf jacked it. Has anyone else had problems like this? These are nice calves that we would have liked to shown, but can't cause they end up limping on that leg after we work with them for days finally to get them strong enough to get up on their own and eventually walk. These calves were presented at birth normal, not breech. We give them BoSe at birth. Vet recommended dexasone, not sure if that has helped at all or just us getting it up multiple times a day on a bale of hay. Any suggestions or advice from anyone would be appreciated! Maybe someone else has been through the same situation? Thanks!

obie105 · Apr 13, 2013

We had a heifer calf this year born at 90-95# and she had one leg that wouldnt work for quite awhile. She was totally 3 legged. She was in the barn and the vet said to keep her in a small spot til she got going. 2 weeks later she was still off but it was better and now at 3 months you cant tell. I was always told the bigger they are the harder they are to get going. Give them time and sounds like your doing the right things.

ejoe326 · Apr 13, 2013

Are the calves related? Do you know if the cows have a smaller pelvis or maybe a bone spur in the pelvis? We have had strange things happen this year too. I would not do this without checking with your vet but ours had us switch to repeating the BoSe after several days because of the drought. It did seem to help. We also slightly went up on the total dose.

Did you vet have you giving repeated doses of the dex?

I have had several weak calves that I tubed with my previously never failed high energy mix. It will normally get a weak calf up and zipping around in about 1/2 hour. It did not do a thing on a few.

jagerbeef · Apr 13, 2013

we had one about 3 years ago on a heifer calf and was told it was spastic pareisis(sp?) vet told us to give dexmethasone 1cc for 3 straight days. we put calf on a bale for a week until it was strong enough to stand by itself. the calf could walk but went in the fat pen at weaning when she got to be 1150 she started to get really lame on that back wheel and then we butchered her. that calf was an alias x who made who. The more clubby you breed a cow the straighter the back legs will get and more problems you will have

Shghmh · Apr 13, 2013

The vet didnt think spastic paresis. The symptoms didnt fit. The leg is not straight at all. Seems to be in the knee area. If we hold pressure on the anterior side of the knee, he can stand fairly well. But cannot get up by himself on that leg or walk around yet. The other one we had like that, eventually walked, but not sound at all. He had tons of energy when born, so not a weakness. He was trying and trying to get up. We are using the bale to help support him since he weighs so much. Almost as if he doesnt have a knee cap or the leg did not turn out the way it was supposed to. Would love to take an xray to see what really was going on. Hmm. He is a Choppin Wood/Smokin Joe calf. Thanks for the input everyone. We will keep working at him.

bull64 · Apr 14, 2013

Might think about changing from bo- se to multimin 90 its a more complete trace mineral that includes the selenium .

CAB · Apr 14, 2013

I've been watching this thread & thinking that most of us that have been around for some time & dabbled in the Club Calf deal have had a calf or two that was a hard pull that for some reason can't seem to use one of their back legs correctly and usually never can get over it. Sometimes while pulling the calf you audibly hear a "pop" and kinda say, oh that didn't sound good. It's just like the leg cannot support it's portion of the body weight so therefore it seems to give out or gimp down. I've had 3 or 4 over the years and only one ever got well enough to go through an auction ring & not be docked. If you have the calf up and going you'll just have to wait & see what Mother Nature has in store for the calf. They usually survive but can't thrive. IMO some sore of nerve or ligament damage occurs as they are coming through the birth canal but that is just my opinion. Maybe Lucky P or DL could chime in here to give us a more technical diagnosis although it is hard to say without physically observing your calf. Maybe you could put up a short video of your calf trying to get around. That would help a bunch.

Shghmh · Apr 14, 2013

Did hear a pop when the calf was just past ribs. Wasnt sure if it was in the cow or calf. Im really surprised we even got him out as big as he was! Thank god the cow was big enough. I will try to get a video of him. We have to help him get up, he can supposrt himself on one leg a lttile while, and a tiny bit on the bad leg, seems to go behind him to easily. If you palpate both rear legs, you can feel a definite difference but cant figure out what. I was a vet tech and know anatomy, so, figure it dislocated something or nerve damage. We have the other calf with the same issue walking now, but definitely will be freezer beef if he can make it that long. This one would've been a show calf, but not sure he'll come out of this to show either. I will try to get a video of him, but he's in a calving pen and dark in there. Thanks all for your comments. Just trying to find answers.

Shghmh · Apr 16, 2013

Last update. Had the vet out today to place embyros in some cows and had him take a look at the two calves with the same issues. He said most likely from pulling or calf jacking. Since we're breeding club calf bulls, going to have a lot of hip to them and trying to pull them out, usually will pop something that shouldnt to make room to go through pelvis! That type of injury usually not able to heal correctly. Phooey! Guess we'll just have to pray everytime we pull one we dont hear a pop! Thanks all for your help and advice. Just thought I'd let you know what our vet said incase it might help someone else down the road.

RedBulls · Apr 17, 2013

This sure won’t make any friends among the club calf folks, but my conscience will not let this pass. What “may help someone else down the road” would be to not breed this type of cattle! Cattle that if left to themselves would breed themselves out of existence in short order! When humankind was given “dominion over the beasts”, as the Bible says, I think the Good Lord also expected us to use some common sense and humanity when exercising this “dominion”. We need to stop and wonder if we may have gone too far in our pursuit of ribbons, trophies, or dreams of breeding the next “great one” if we have to routinely reach for the calf jack. Unexpected problems can always happen, but when we deliberately mate animals while knowing fully well the mating has a good chance of creating problems, we are practicing animal abuse just as surely as if we were using a baseball bat. Go ahead folks-fire both barrels. If my tirade only causes “one person down the road” to actually think, it will be well worth it!

tlf · Apr 17, 2013

(clapping)

CAB · Apr 17, 2013

Don't necessarily have to hear a "pop" to have the damage occur & this can easily happen outside of the club calf world. Anyone that has been in the cattle business has had this happen.

rackranch · Apr 17, 2013

Did the other two calves have Heat Wave in the bloodline as well?

Shghmh · May 22, 2013

I really don't remember what the other calves are out of at this moment without looking in records. I would never have guessed this calf to ever walk, but he has finally managed to get up and around on his own! The cow would actually walk to him and nurse him while he was lying down. He is so big, he didnt have to even stand to reach the udder. He does not walk well at all, but he can and I am shocked. Took him a good three weeks or so to get up on his own. I dont think the club calf bulls will ever go away. They are considered "crossbreds" and it happens in any animal or human. Crossbreeds have always been proven to be healthier and have less genetic problems than any purebreed. How you can call that inhumane, is stupid, breeding purebred amimals because they are the same is not smart either. Im speaking from experience dealing with animals as a veterinary technician. Was here to find some HELPFUL advice. Thanks to those who actually did have some. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!"

RyanChandler · May 23, 2013

RedBulls said:
This sure won’t make any friends among the club calf folks, but my conscience will not let this pass. What “may help someone else down the road” would be to not breed this type of cattle! Cattle that if left to themselves would breed themselves out of existence in short order! When humankind was given “dominion over the beasts”, as the Bible says, I think the Good Lord also expected us to use some common sense and humanity when exercising this “dominion”. We need to stop and wonder if we may have gone too far in our pursuit of ribbons, trophies, or dreams of breeding the next “great one” if we have to routinely reach for the calf jack. Unexpected problems can always happen, but when we deliberately mate animals while knowing fully well the mating has a good chance of creating problems, we are practicing animal abuse just as surely as if we were using a baseball bat. Go ahead folks-fire both barrels. If my tirade only causes “one person down the road” to actually think, it will be well worth it!

Great post, and I couldn't agree more. In cases like this, I think it's obvious Mother Nature has spoken.

BTDT · May 23, 2013

Not sure how I missed this earlier. RedBulls hit the nail on the head. Humans are continuing to breed inferior animals that would never survive without a great amount of human intervention. I use the term "inferior" meaning having difficulties surviving without intervention, and not meaning unable to win purple banners. Is that true? Absolutely.
Shghmh should realize that when playing with fire (crossbred clubbie bulls) your going to get burned and when it happens, you accept it and move on. If you are proud of what your are producing and know the reason you are producing it, there should be no need for name calling, or getting defensive. If you are a vet tech, you see the consequences of bad genetics every day in the canine and equine business. Bulldogs can no longer have their own puppies, Chihuahuas have vision and nervous disorders. All because a visual trait was highly selected over a survival trait.
Crossbred animals are only "healthier" when they are allowed to survive or die on their own. Purebreds are only superior to crossbred when handled as crossbreds and not pampered and have excuses thrown for them.

I hope the calf survived. I also hope your intervention is not interpreted as genetic superiority.

RyanChandler · May 23, 2013

BTDT said:
I also hope your intervention is not interpreted as genetic superiority.

Sadly it's interpreted that way throughout that entire industry.

DL · May 26, 2013

Shghmh said:
We have had 2 or 3 calves now that are born not being able to use one of it's rear legs. The last one was around 120# out of Choppin Wood. We calf jacked it. Has anyone else had problems like this? These are nice calves that we would have liked to shown, but can't cause they end up limping on that leg after we work with them for days finally to get them strong enough to get up on their own and eventually walk. These calves were presented at birth normal, not breech. We give them BoSe at birth. Vet recommended dexasone, not sure if that has helped at all or just us getting it up multiple times a day on a bale of hay. Any suggestions or advice from anyone would be appreciated! Maybe someone else has been through the same situation? Thanks!

Human nature - when faced with a calf that isn't coming is to pull straight, pull fast and forget the lube. One thing to consider when you are pulling calves is that the force generated by the calf jack can be tremendous - if the calf is not positioned "right" you can tear a ligament in the hip and that is a bad deal.

If you look at a pelvis - picture a clock - the longest diameter is in the 2 to 8 or 10 to 4 diameter - not the 3 to 9 or 12 to 6 -

If you look at the standing calf from the rear he is usually widest is from hip bone to hip bone (ie 3 to 6 o'clock) - shoulders may be as wide as hips in some of these calves - again 3 o'clock to 6

so for best results when pulling a calf turn/twist the calf (assuming he is in normal presentation 2 feet and one head) so that the shoulders are in the 2 to 8 or 10 to 4 position - pull one leg then the other so that you are getting one shoulder then the other thru the pelvis

same with the hips - use a ton of lube - slippery is good - unless the calf is backward you don't have to rush - take your time and make sure the position is right and always pull with the contractions

Pulling straight out with a calf jack is usually a recipe for trouble for both the calf and the cow

Another thing to consider when breeding clubby females is to have them pelvic measured and if they have a pelvis the size of a peanut change their career

The only thing worse that a "nice calf" that can't be shown bc it has a leg issue is a nice calf that is dead from dystocia

loveRedcows · May 27, 2013

DL said:
Shghmh said:

Another thing to consider when breeding clubby females is to have them pelvic measured and if they have a pelvis the size of a peanut change their career

The only thing worse that a "nice calf" that can't be shown bc it has a leg issue is a nice calf that is dead from dystocia [/color]

Click to expand...

Hear, hear!!

Calves born with rear leg issues

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