can't register calves

Also was there a sale manager involved?

Sometimes they can help put pressure on a seller.

ever since I started trying to get the first heifer registered back in the middle of January, it has been a growing snowball of stories and problems... I will say this, the ASA said Thomas is a long time member and something like this should have never happened and they are very disappointed! I purchased the embryos online from Caldwell - Willoughby in Jan. of 2014. I purchased them because I wanted a 3/4 blood for my niece to show at our local fair, and the breeders I talked to said a 3c macho cow to broker is a good combo. does anybody agree?

  I would like some suggestions on what I should say to Thomas about damages....
                                                                       
  NOTE: Im not saying Thomas is not a reputable breeder, I just want them to make it right!

Just want to point out that according to original post it would appear you bought eggs from polzin not Thomas's correct..or am I wrong

IMHO, if they are not going to make it so you can register them as promised, then they owe you a full refund. You keep the calf as payment for the loss of use of your recip cow, time and expense.

Lesson here is: sellers don't sell something with out having your ducks all lined up and buyers check out a breeds registration policies before buying embryos.

SD
<alien>

  I would like some suggestions on what I should say to Thomas about damages....
                                                                       
  NOTE: Im not saying Thomas is not a reputable breeder, I just want them to make it right!
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I don't think you have anything to go on against Thomas. Polzin is the seller, did they resell the embryos after knowing the problems? How did they get them to sell in the first place? Thomas bought the cow as a calf and it didn't blood type, who bred her? You got 3 live calves from 3 embroys, with cattle prices sell them and buy something already papered.

HF CHARS said:

Just want to point out that according to original post it would appear you bought eggs from polzin not Thomas's correct..or am I wrong

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since you asked.... Thomas pointed the finger at Chris and said he should of had her dna tested before he flushed her. I talked to Chris before buying embryos, I assumed Chris had all the ducks in a row because he talked about how this macho daughter has produced high sellers for Thomas, and how he thinks this is a great mating...I also think this is a learning experience for Chris, because I purchased them in a Polzin embryo sale, and I feel he should have checked all of this out before putting his name on them! Thomas is the owner/breeder on Registration, but Thomas told me they purchased her as a heifer, idk who they got her from...
  at the end of the day I think Thomas is liable for damages... what is your thoughts on this?

frostback said:

I don't think you have anything to go on against Thomas. Polzin is the seller, did they resell the embryos after knowing the problems? How did they get them to sell in the first place? Thomas bought the cow as a calf and it didn't blood type, who bred her? You got 3 live calves from 3 embroys, with cattle prices sell them and buy something already papered.

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  what i have against Thomas is the registration is false, polzin is saying im just the embryologist not the owner of embryos, they dna tested her twice failing both times, the key there is when was the first dna test done, idk. i understand the hole 3 live calves, but the thing that grinds my gears is the ethics that have lead up to this point!

Kind of hard to collect damages from Thomas' when you paid Polzin for the embryos. Polzin needs to make it right with you and let them settle things with Thomas.

I bred a couple purebred Maines to a purebred Sim bull last year and had no trouble dual registering them as half bloods in each association.  You won't get the 3/4 blood papers like you wanted but I don't see why you cannot get halfblood papers by calling the cow a commercial.  Maybe I am missing something...

We had this happen once, bought some embryos and put one in. We tried to register the resulting calf, but the dam had not been DNAd. They finally pulled hair on the dam and our calf got registered, but I was calling the dam owner often to get it done.
It sounds like, in your case, they did DNA the dam and she did not come back as reported, so she is not a half blood Macho as thought. So, you now can register the calf as a half blood, as long as the DNA matched back to Broker. Either way, the calf is still considered a percentage.
A similar thing happened with Head's Up. He should have been a 3/4 blood, but he did not DNA back to his dam (I guess there were a bunch of calves born and they think cows switched calves at birth and no one knew). So he has half blood papers.

I'm guessing that out of a non-documented dam that they want her tested for genetic defects? Is she still around to do this?

this is the problem: I do not own the donor cow!
  from what the ASA has told me is the donor cow has to have genetic testing done before they can register her as a commercial cow, she is alive, and Thomas has to make the decision on if they want her to be a commercial cow, if I was to guess Thomas would rather find out who the real sire is....
  so as far as registering them out of a commercial cow my hands are tied!

Why don't you just register them as if you bred your own cows to broker if all you want is a registerable calf?

jagerbeef said:

Why don't you just register them as if you bred your own cows to broker if all you want is a registerable calf?

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  Im a reputable guy, and I try to keep my word a good as gold! on that note, If I falsify a registration then what kind of a person am I? I have heard of people giving falsified information to a association and this is the type of thing that will come back to haunt you!!!!!
Then everybody in your county labels you as a liar, then your hole families image in the cattle business is ruined!

With that being said these two reputable breeders should be getting this taken care of immediately , looks like a lot of dirty water in this lake of problems ....

No what your doing to Thomas's, labeling them as crooks, as they bought a heifer that turned out not to be what they were told, is way better then you just getting half blood papers. Then wanted "damages" from them for something they got no revenue from is absolutely the way to go.

frostback said:

No what your doing to Thomas's, labeling them as crooks, as they bought a heifer that turned out not to be what they were told, is way better then you just getting half blood papers. Then wanted "damages" from them for something they got no revenue from is absolutely the way to go.

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In no way do I feel like the Thomas family are crooks, my gut feeling is that they got wrapped up in a bad deal, and Polzin is part of it. as far as getting half blood papers... time will tell, as far as damages go, I feel that i should at least get my money back for the embryos. one of my questions for Thomas is who got the money for the embryos? my guess is Polzin, but idk

Get your money back??? Are you planning to send them back the resulting calves you have? I get that they might be worth a bit less than you thought originally, but damages seems a bit out of line. I suppose you could come up with a valuation for them as the pedigree said and a valuation for what you have in front of you and then ask for the difference, but that might not be really fair to both parties either. I think in this case, there are just to many middle men and the situation is not getting addressed as it probably would if you were dealing with Troy directly.

Boot Jack Bulls said:

Get your money back??? Are you planning to send them back the resulting calves you have? I get that they might be worth a bit less than you thought originally, but damages seems a bit out of line. I suppose you could come up with a valuation for them as the pedigree said and a valuation for what you have in front of you and then ask for the difference, but that might not be really fair to both parties either. I think in this case, there are just to many middle men and the situation is not getting addressed as it probably would if you were dealing with Troy directly.

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http://www.bootjackcattleco.net/home

the website says all of these heart warming things like ''Quality before quantity with an emphasis on performance and docility!'' does that not apply to embryos? or ''Our beef herd consists of a group of proven performing cow families that consistently produce outstanding replacement stock.'' does that not apply to embryos? or ''Tested genetic defect free.'' does that not apply to embryos? or ''Strong breed charicterisics on both sides of the isle'' does this not apply to embryos? If this stuff has no value then why post this info? <cowboy> 

before we flush a papered cow we always do the DNA work and have results back before we flush because you just never ever know what DNA work may show......
even a cow born on our own place has the off chance of something not checking out.

would assume that before flushing and for sure before marketing embryos on a national stage you would absolutely have the DNA work in hand before the sale to
avoid a situation that is embarrassing as this one is.