Canadian shorthorns/Lincoln Reds

I have noticed that many Canadian Shorthorns have some Lincoln Red in their ancestry.  I can't seem to remember at what percentage they were allowed into the Canadian Herd Book.  I know there were a few US Shorthorn breeders that used a little Lincoln Red breeding, also.  I read on the Lincoln Red website that at one time they were recorded in the same herdbook as Shorthorns and later split off.  I also read where later they introduced some Angus and Red Angus blood to get the polled gene and, after several years, one bull was allowed into the herd book to propogate that gene.  I've read for years a little Shorthorn blood was used to develop Angus.  Interesting how these breeds have developed over the years.

From what little I know about them, they are the purest Durham line available. 

The Lincoln Red Society web page says the founding breeders, most notably Thomas Turnell, brought in some cherry red Durham and York Shorthorn bulls, from the herds of Robert Blakewell and the Collings Bros., to cross on the local cattle of Lincolnshire.  The local animals were large, rugged, draught cows and the Shorthorns were used to improve confirmation.  The resulting descendants were known as Lincoln Red Shorthorns.  The first Coates Herd Book, 1922, distinguised between the two types and the Lincoln Red Shorthorn Association was formed in 1896.  In 1926, the Lincoln Red Shorthorn Association was the 2nd largest breed of pedigreed cattle in England.  Shorthorns were first.  In 1960, Lincoln Reds dropped the word Shorthorn.  In 1939, Angus and Red Angus blood was introduced to get the polled gene.  After 17 years, the first polled Lincoln Red bull was licensed.  As for their purity, I don't know.  No Angus blood was infused into Shorthorns at that time, though obviously other genetics have entered, legally since the early 70's.  All I would like to know is if the Canadian Shorthorn Association allowed Lincoln Reds in their herdbook at 100% or at some other level. 

oakview said:

The Lincoln Red Society web page says the founding breeders, most notably Thomas Turnell, brought in some cherry red Durham and York Shorthorn bulls, from the herds of Robert Blakewell and the Collings Bros., to cross on the local cattle of Lincolnshire.  The local animals were large, rugged, draught cows and the Shorthorns were used to improve confirmation.  The resulting descendants were known as Lincoln Red Shorthorns.  The first Coates Herd Book, 1922, distinguised between the two types and the Lincoln Red Shorthorn Association was formed in 1896.  In 1926, the Lincoln Red Shorthorn Association was the 2nd largest breed of pedigreed cattle in England.  Shorthorns were first.  In 1960, Lincoln Reds dropped the word Shorthorn.  In 1939, Angus and Red Angus blood was introduced to get the polled gene.  After 17 years, the first polled Lincoln Red bull was licensed.  As for their purity, I don't know.  No Angus blood was infused into Shorthorns at that time, though obviously other genetics have entered, legally since the early 70's.  All I would like to know is if the Canadian Shorthorn Association allowed Lincoln Reds in their herdbook at 100% or at some other level. 

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The Lincoln Red was accepted at 100% in Canada until they seperated from our herdbook about 10 years ago. Only animals already registered in our herdbook at the time of seperation are allowed in the CSA herdbook now. (as per the agreement of seperation with the Lincoln Red breeders)

Thanks for the clarification.  That's what it looked like on the old pedigrees, just wanted to be sure.

-XBAR- said:

From what little I know about them, they are the purest Durham line available.

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As far as availability in North America....Yes. In regards to existence, no.....the Argentine Shorthorns are, as well as Uruguay and Paraguay.

GB

garybob said:

-XBAR- said:

From what little I know about them, they are the purest Durham line available.

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As far as availability in North America....Yes. In regards to existence, no.....the Argentine Shorthorns are, as well as Uruguay and Paraguay.

GB

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Purer to shorthorns or durhams?

At where I know....Lincoln Red and Shorthorn were on the same book, but on separated sections.

On 1939 and 40's Eric Pentecost used some Aberdeen Angus and Red Angus as well as some Polled Shorthorns from North America to insert the polled factor on breed.

On 80's continental blood was introduced on UK Herd book and today on UK exist two registers - An improved line with continental and one Traditional line without it but with Angus/Shorthorn blood. The unique exceptions for this is a bull called Spridcliff Kinsman that not show Angus/Shorthorn on your pedigree at where I know.

On Argentina not exist Lincoln Red anymore, but all Shorthorn population has LR blood at some level. Same for Uruguay.

Here in Brazil all Shorthorn population show some LR or Maine Anjou or appendix blood infusion. Some pure Lincoln Red are found. Semen of two bulls were imported last year from UK and some embryos too to reintroduce pure LR here. I organized this embryos and semen imports.

Mexico imported more than 5000 LR straws around 6 years ago to be used on Beefmaster cows for fix red coat and polled factor.

LR and Shorthorn are distinct breeds, same level than Shorthorn and Maine Anjou or Shorthorn and Belgian Blue.

There is a very usefull bull Called GB Daybreak Express-sired by Byland Dazzler and out of a part Lincoln Red cow sired by Claydene Everready (I think)

Shorthorn, Maine, and LR are all Durham derivatives.  Not hardly the comparison to BBs.

To me are all the same case.

Maine Anjou is a french breed created on late 1800's with Shorthorn bulls under red and white cows. BB was the same, on same date, with a similar Belgian breed, the diference is that BB were selected for double muscled on 60's-70's.

Another difference is that Shorthorn association not wish - qualify - BB as a Shorthorn cousin due double muscle. To me are all the same, so that Maines are accept as 3/4 Shorthorn on US and Canada and 50% Shorthorn on UK. From these mathematic base, Santa Gertrudis are more Shorthorns on UK than Maines as SG is 62% Shorthorn! Is only a way to view the points! Or make the choices are societies wish to do!

Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR said:

To me are all the same case.

Maine Anjou is a french breed created on late 1800's with Shorthorn bulls under red and white cows. BB was the same, on same date, with a similar Belgian breed, the diference is that BB were selected for double muscled on 60's-70's.

Another difference is that Shorthorn association not wish - qualify - BB as a Shorthorn cousin due double muscle. To me are all the same, so that Maines are accept as 3/4 Shorthorn on US and Canada and 50% Shorthorn on UK. From these mathematic base, Santa Gertrudis are more Shorthorns on UK than Maines as SG is 62% Shorthorn! Is only a way to view the points! Or make the choices are societies wish to do!

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Maine Anjou is not accepted as 3/4 in Canada but is given 0%. So a shorthorn/maine anjou cross recorded in the US as 7/8 because it is half Maine Anjou will only be recorded as 50% in Canada.

Excuse me all for my wrong information. Sorry.

Do shorthorns and maines not share the same foundation?  I was under the impression that their phenotypical differences were only the result of selection.

Ryan. Maines were formed on France with Shorthorn being used on their formation. Shorthorn bulls were mated to local red and white cattle of north France. This mating was also used for Normando (Shorthorn + Jersey + local breed cows), BB (Shorthorn + local red white cows), Armoricaine, Charolais.....

Maines came from Shorthorn. They not share same foundation stock.

Maines did not come from Shorthorns.  Both Maine and Shorthorns were developed from Durham cattle. 

OK.
Durham-Mancelle, the first Maine Anjou name.
So history is wrong, someone need write it again.

I feel like this is a semantics issue.  Durhams and Teeswater cattle were used to develop shorthorns. Durhams and Mancelle cattle were used to develop the Maine Anjou breed. From everything ive read, Shorthorn bulls were not used in developing Maines.

Feel the same. Is semantic.
The amalgation of Durham, Holderness and Teeswater was called Shorthorn, but since when? No exact data for it. Only after 1822, Coate's HB foundation the name Shorthorn become popular. But some breeders already call these primary selected animals as Shorthorn to be the oposite of Longhorns.
Here in South America, Durham is a Shorthorn nickname until 40 years ago. Yet today some old breeders know the Durham breed, characterized by roan coat, don't know Shorthorns.
Unfortunately some breeders history details don't provide us accurate dates.

Same here, Jean. My grandpa still calls my roan cows 'roan durhams' as to him, shorthorns are those big framey cows in the neighbors parlor.