How much confidence do people have in DNA testing? I tested a bull that I like alot with Igenity and the tenderness came back at 1 which is the lowest score it can have. I question this as it is a Shorthorn bull and I have been told many times that Shorthorns have above average tenderness.
DNA testing
- Thread starter beebe
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knabe
Well-known member
dna testing depends upon a training set of cattle.
it is my opinion that it is fraud to sell these tests without telling people what the test population was and the causality of the score.
there is little value of these tests other than in angus populations.
it is better to have real data.
hang the suckers, get them graded, get some shear tests and gather your own data. DNA tests are worthless other than in angus.
it is my opinion that it is fraud to sell these tests without telling people what the test population was and the causality of the score.
there is little value of these tests other than in angus populations.
it is better to have real data.
hang the suckers, get them graded, get some shear tests and gather your own data. DNA tests are worthless other than in angus.
Tyler
Well-known member
Tenderness varies more animal to animal than it does between breeds. A breed as a whole might be slightly more tender than another breed but the animals within that breed would have much more variation. So it is very possible that the test is correct.
knabe
Well-known member
Do your own taste test.
Who pays a premium for tenderness ?
Who pays a premium for tenderness ?
When I am dealing with a potential new customer, I give him or her a package of rib steaks free of charge. If he likes it I get a 25% premium for what he buys. So far I have given away one steak that did not result in a sale. So my customer is the one paying the premium.knabe said:
I think you are probably both right, Knabe about the training cattle and Tyler about more difference within the breed than between the breeds. One more thing, I have never enjoyed a tough steak, no matter how good the flavor. I get feed back from my customers but when I am looking for new genetics I would like to get as much information as possible. I used Lowline gentics once thinking that I could get easy calving and tenderness. Well I got easy calving but not tenderness.
knabe
Well-known member
beebe said:
Did you then do a taste yourself? You need an independent way to measure tenderness rather than a customer.
librarian
Well-known member
What is a training set?
Is the tenderness marker the same across breeds?
In total genetic interaction with total environment, is tenderness a trait that expresses itself more or less with life history environmental circumstances?
Things like drought, temperature, nutrition? even wind? Various forms of stress?
For the segment of the beef business that markets directly, or markets genetics to producers who market beef directly, tenderness is more important than marbling. Personally, I think meat (promoted grass fed) that hangs 3 weeks to acquire tenderness is missing the mark. We could learn a lot from the South Americans about tenderness, perhaps.
Is the tenderness marker the same across breeds?
In total genetic interaction with total environment, is tenderness a trait that expresses itself more or less with life history environmental circumstances?
Things like drought, temperature, nutrition? even wind? Various forms of stress?
For the segment of the beef business that markets directly, or markets genetics to producers who market beef directly, tenderness is more important than marbling. Personally, I think meat (promoted grass fed) that hangs 3 weeks to acquire tenderness is missing the mark. We could learn a lot from the South Americans about tenderness, perhaps.
In the case of the first Lowline I ate the first steak and thought I should be done chewing before I was. I then took a steak toSouth Dakota State University meats lab to have them test it. The shear force test said the same thing. I ate a second Lowline and found it a little better but still a little chewy. I don't do Lowlines any more. I also use linear measuring as taught by Gerauld Fry. Making a mistake wastes a lot of time.knabe said:
I am not a DNA expert but I believe traning cattle are cattle that are evaluated for the purpose of comparison. I am sure there are others here that can give a better explanation than I have, knabe?
knabe
Well-known member
Training set is a set of samples that are used to predict against the entire population.
librarian
Well-known member
Statistics is pretty tricky stuff, and I would like to understand the methods better.
This training set is a subset of a population?
Training like training the model to predict and then testing the prediction?
A training set of Angus, for instance EXT influence will predict accurately for genetically similar animals? How specific are the predictions relative to within breed differences? Would an entirely different Angus lineage bomb the test whereas an Angus/Shorthorn cross could perform great if the Angus part was heavy to EXT or whatever was in the training set?
When a Shorthorn is tested is it tested against a Shorthorn trained prediction? I guess not.
Sorry about the distance learning, but thanks for the education.
This training set is a subset of a population?
Training like training the model to predict and then testing the prediction?
A training set of Angus, for instance EXT influence will predict accurately for genetically similar animals? How specific are the predictions relative to within breed differences? Would an entirely different Angus lineage bomb the test whereas an Angus/Shorthorn cross could perform great if the Angus part was heavy to EXT or whatever was in the training set?
When a Shorthorn is tested is it tested against a Shorthorn trained prediction? I guess not.
Sorry about the distance learning, but thanks for the education.
