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Offline r.n.reed

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2015, 05:48:02 AM »
 9b here as well,well balanced and the best rear 1/3 by the pictures presented.
 Huntaway is right a group effort will move us farther faster.I like the idea of using multiple herds rather than 1 or 2 large test herds to avoid a regional or environmental bias.
 I can't resist kicking a dead horse but we had the foundation for this type of project laid about 10 years ago.Most of those breeders switched rather than fight,simple economics.
 
Gary Kaper

Offline librarian

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2015, 12:40:44 PM »
How many steers per sire group is enough to draw a meaningful conclusion on carcass quality?
If I was buying steers to finish as grass fed and sell under a Shorthorn label, what would be a reasonable EPD for marbling on sires to use as a minimum threshold? I am thinking 0.5? Are there 5 breeders out there with bulls that would meet that threshold that have steers raised on pasture and milk only? This is the easiest easy way to collect data I can think of. I'm suggesting grassfed because it rapidly sorts the easy keepers while providing a high end ground beef market for the low end of the grading scale.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2015, 12:47:58 PM »
I see I set my threshold too high.
CCL6th and 4508 are both 0.32. These are the type genetics that I think will succeed in this market. I'm looking for others.
So I'll set the threshold at 0.3.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2015, 01:42:42 PM »
26B for me.  They're all pretty nice but if I had to pick one for me it would be 26.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2015, 01:53:41 PM »
I'm looking for others.


I think you're gonna find the grass fed 'types' to all be below average in terms of marbling. 

Offline librarian

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2015, 04:23:08 PM »
I'm looking for others.


I think you're gonna find the grass fed 'types' to all be below average in terms of marbling.

This has been puzzling me because it seems like the Leader lines marble well. I consider that "type", to be grassy.
 Is this coming from Leader21, or father back, or from some of the milkier Dual Purpose cows mixed into the modern Leader derived bulls?



'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline r.n.reed

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2015, 04:47:31 PM »
 There does appear to be a correlation between higher marbling and the heavier milking type cattle which typically have a phenotype quite different than the type sought by most grass finishers.Breed average is .06 so I think it could be quite possible to develop a line of grass fed type Shorthorns that could exceed that number.The bar is not too high.
 The Leader influence in most pedigrees at this point is 50% at best and until it gets blended and stacked in the pedigrees, we are kind of peering through the veil.It takes generations to fix a trait or type.I get a kick out of people who think they have solved the calving ease issue for example by using a son of a calving ease bull for 1 generation and then follow up with an all out performance growth bull.
Gary Kaper

Offline mbigelow

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2015, 09:46:55 AM »
Dan, those are some nice looking heifers! 
Gary, I agree about the ASA website very hard to navigate and not nearly as informative as I think it should be.  The pedigree with missing sires is a glitch that the staff are aware of and are working on.  I was have the same issue's. 

Offline r.n.reed

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2015, 12:38:49 PM »
Matt,it does take some time to learn the ropes, especially for the computer illiterate like me.I think there is the potential to find a wealth of information in the site once some things are fixed,entered, and processes made more user friendly.I guess I am surprised at the fact that they released it with so much bad or missing info.
Gary Kaper

Offline oakview

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2015, 03:55:19 PM »
Didn't the MARC data from several years back show Shorthorns to be among the best marbling of any of the breeds tested?  I'll have to get out my old issues and do some research.  I think Sho-Me farms did a lot of shear testing with the University of Missouri and had some data on the lines that tended to at least be more tender.  Lots of considerations, lots of research to be done.  I'd like average size calves that come easy, have a good growth rate, turn into efficient gainers that marble well and top the sale.  The heifer mates need to be easy keeping, good uddered, milk well, calve easily, good natured, and pretty to look at, all in an efficient package.  And they need to be polled and defect free.  Some of you might like red ones although I prefer roans.  That's asking quite a bit.  When I get it perfected, I'll let you know.  Or, if you get it perfected, let me know. 

In my opinion, there were more muscular, better milking lines in their day than the Leader 21s.  They were sure tough to beat in the showring, though.   

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2015, 04:31:21 PM »
Matt,it does take some time to learn the ropes, especially for the computer illiterate like me.I think there is the potential to find a wealth of information in the site once some things are fixed,entered, and processes made more user friendly.I guess I am surprised at the fact that they released it with so much bad or missing info.

It does seem to take quite a bit of effort to maneuver through the system.

The results I got when I went to do a birthweight search as a guest were surprising. I simply entered 0 as a max and most of the results kicked out are are a bunch of Angus bulls. If I'm a potential customer on the Shorthorn Association database, I'm there to see Shorthorn bulls. Shouldn't I at least be able to narrow the field down to only Shorthorn bulls?

Not being able to sort the field using multiple epds at a time causes some significant effort on the researcher as well. Being able to "mate" your cow to a potential bull and see their offspring's numbers seems like something that would be useful too.

The little things are often signs of big things. I hope it's just growing pains.

Offline r.n.reed

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2015, 05:22:51 PM »
 One of the more frustrating things for me in regards to searches is the fact that if you do manage to find more than 1 Shorthorn in a search result you have to start the search over for each animal you want to look at on that list.
Gary Kaper

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2015, 07:32:55 PM »
I thought it was my backwoods connection that was preventing me from searching multiple epd's in the same search. It would be nice if there was door back to the old epd sorting program that could be used until this one gets ironed out.

Oakview, In my opinion, there were more muscular, better milking lines in their day than the Leader 21s. 
What would be a For Instance? I don't like Leader 21 that much because he looks( to me, which doesn't mean anything)  like a bull that would not make good cows, so an alternative from that era would be great.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline Okotoks

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2015, 09:52:47 PM »
I thought it was my backwoods connection that was preventing me from searching multiple epd's in the same search. It would be nice if there was door back to the old epd sorting program that could be used until this one gets ironed out.

Oakview, In my opinion, there were more muscular, better milking lines in their day than the Leader 21s. 
What would be a For Instance? I don't like Leader 21 that much because he looks( to me, which doesn't mean anything)  like a bull that would not make good cows, so an alternative from that era would be great.
I think Leader 21st produced some pretty outstanding daughters. He may have been noted more for the number of his sons and grandsons that made herd sires. Here is a photo of a 3 year old 21st daughter from the Remitall Dispersal Catalogue. She is shown with her Pheasant Creek Leader 4th heifer calf and the bull she raised as a two year old by the Australian Bogan Yalta. This cow's dam was by a son of the 21st as well so both she and her calf are linebred Leader 21st

I had to scan this photo from the catalogue upside down. I rotated it and saved it but when I upload it it's back upside down ??? It is right side up in my pictures...tech challenged here  (dog)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 12:33:38 AM by Okotoks »

Offline beebe

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Re: ET Weston Ablo daughter
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2015, 11:02:35 PM »
I thought it was my backwoods connection that was preventing me from searching multiple epd's in the same search. It would be nice if there was door back to the old epd sorting program that could be used until this one gets ironed out.

Oakview, In my opinion, there were more muscular, better milking lines in their day than the Leader 21s. 
What would be a For Instance? I don't like Leader 21 that much because he looks( to me, which doesn't mean anything)  like a bull that would not make good cows, so an alternative from that era would be great.
Boa Kae Royal Oak might be what you are wondering about.  Cattle that have a lot of capcity, body instead of legs.

 

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