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coachmac

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While standing up by the gate of a show, overheard the breeder of a heifer that was in the ring, yelling for another heifer (not raised by them) to win over a heifer that was sold by them, with their prefix attached.  Now, immaturity was probably the overriding factor in this response, as well as possible dislike for the animal that was sold.  Is it just me, or is that extremely counterproductive to success of that persons breeding program?  For others to overhear that, would that make you .... reconsider a future purchase from that individual?
 

twistedhshowstock

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I dont really think you can necessarily say its immaturity or dislike in the heifer shown.  I think a big part of maturity and knowledge is knowing when you have the best one in the ring and when you dont.  Sure we all like to win, but I dont mind getting beat by a good one.  Sometimes I leave a show thinking "How in the world did we get beat by that?" and yet there are still plenty of times I leave a show thinking "How on earth did we win that?"  I have been known to look at families I am helping and say " Well, we gave it all we could, we found a good one, and yall did a heck of a job gettin her fed right.  She looks darn good today, but that one over there is about to hand us our rearends on a platter."
I dont think its a lack of pride in an animal you sold to be able to recognize and admit that another one is better, personally I think that is more of a sign of maturity, honesty, and integrity.  I would probably be more inclined to do business with someone who had the integrity to be honest and admit out loud that the one he sold or sent in the ring wasnt the best one, rather than try to point out all the ways that his was better and convince the people he sold her to that she should have been the winner.
 

ccrider

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It is sad the behavior we see ring side.  Some people do not think that their behavior is noticed but it is.  Maturity will help some, but not all.  I would not buy animals from this person/family after witnessing something like this.  It amazes me how some show their true colors.
 

twistedhshowstock

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I guess maybe I missed something here.  Was the person being rude, out of line, mean in any way?  All I got out of the original post was the person was astounded that the guy felt and voiced his opinion that a calf other than the one that he bred and sold should have won the show??? I am sorry but I just dont get what was wrong with that.  Especially if the calf he was saying should win was a better calf than the one he sold.  For most breeders it would have gone something like this.  They would sell a calf to someone for some ungodly amount of money after telling them that it would win everywhere it went.  Then they would show up at the show and sit there and very publicly point out how the calf they sold is better, knowing full well that there are better calves in the ring.  I think sometimes they are trying to sway the judges.  Then when the judge doesnt use the calf they sold, the immediately go in defense mode to the family who is looking at them wondering why the calf he told them would win every show they went to didnt even win the most podunk smallest show they went to.  Regardless of who they were or even if he saw them, he would immediately start telling the family that every judge they went before all year long was a blithering idiot.  Then he would move on to defending the calf he sold them, regardless of quality of calf, and telling them how it should have won everything.  Then he would probably close by telling them that he had an even better calf in the pasture and this one was sired by the right bull, sure fire guarantee on this one, and then he would make them feel special by saying he would give them a special deal on it, and we are off to the races again.
If this guy simply recognized and admitted that another heifer in the ring was better than the one he bred and sold, then I say kudos.  I want to do business with someone who is going to have integrity and be honest.  Dont keep telling me that the calf I bought from you is the best one that ever walked when you know 90% of the calves in the class are better.  I want the honest one that is gonna tell me, you know thats a good calf you raised but those others are better and here is why, especially if it is a junior they are dealing with and they are taking the opportunity to educate them. But then again thats just me and how I do business.
 

BuckeyeBeef2

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twistedhshowstock said:
I guess maybe I missed something here.  Was the person being rude, out of line, mean in any way?  All I got out of the original post was the person was astounded that the guy felt and voiced his opinion that a calf other than the one that he bred and sold should have won the show??? I am sorry but I just dont get what was wrong with that.  Especially if the calf he was saying should win was a better calf than the one he sold.  For most breeders it would have gone something like this.  They would sell a calf to someone for some ungodly amount of money after telling them that it would win everywhere it went.  Then they would show up at the show and sit there and very publicly point out how the calf they sold is better, knowing full well that there are better calves in the ring.  I think sometimes they are trying to sway the judges.  Then when the judge doesnt use the calf they sold, the immediately go in defense mode to the family who is looking at them wondering why the calf he told them would win every show they went to didnt even win the most podunk smallest show they went to.  Regardless of who they were or even if he saw them, he would immediately start telling the family that every judge they went before all year long was a blithering idiot.  Then he would move on to defending the calf he sold them, regardless of quality of calf, and telling them how it should have won everything.  Then he would probably close by telling them that he had an even better calf in the pasture and this one was sired by the right bull, sure fire guarantee on this one, and then he would make them feel special by saying he would give them a special deal on it, and we are off to the races again.
If this guy simply recognized and admitted that another heifer in the ring was better than the one he bred and sold, then I say kudos.  I want to do business with someone who is going to have integrity and be honest.  Dont keep telling me that the calf I bought from you is the best one that ever walked when you know 90% of the calves in the class are better.  I want the honest one that is gonna tell me, you know thats a good calf you raised but those others are better and here is why, especially if it is a junior they are dealing with and they are taking the opportunity to educate them. But then again thats just me and how I do business.

I completely Agree!!! If this guy didnt want to win because of politics, and wanted a fair show, i would do business with him.  That is better than the judge lookin at him, and he tell the judge which was his.  My question is....What is yelling for the other heifer to win, was he making an embarrassing scene that would have been imbearable for the child showing that heifer because it made that kid feel like they had a horrible one? I think it needs a little clarification
 

coachmac

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Clarification - person who sold the kid a great calf was sitting at the gate to the ring.  One heifer, from unrelated farm, walks through the gate to the ring.  Next heifer in was the one that was purchased from the person sitting at the gates farm.  It has their prefix, regular contact about how the calf was doing etc.  As the YOUNG showman walks through the gate the person that the young showman bought the heifer from gets to hear the person that was the breeder/seller of their calf yell encouragement to the calf in the ring.  Now mind you, the breeder also had a heifer that did not place 1 or 2 in class and has finished behind the heifer most of the summer in class.  Some obvious resentment has been displayed but my question remains the same.  As a breeder of show animals, would you encourage the kid and the animal that you sold to be successful in the ring or would you root openly against the young showman and the the heifer with your farm name?  Quality of animal is irrelevant in this case!  Believe me!  The young showmans animal is a beast of a show heifer and has stood very well all summer.  From a marketing standpoint, do you support an animal you raised and sold, or another out of spite???  Not sure I can make this any more clear!  Simple question. 
 

husker1

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May 27, 2009
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Nebraska
Simple answer...take care of the people that you sold one too (encourage them), or else keep your opinions to yourself.

I'm sure that buyer won't be back.
 

GONEWEST

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twistedhshowstock said:
I dont really think you can necessarily say its immaturity or dislike in the heifer shown.  I think a big part of maturity and knowledge is knowing when you have the best one in the ring and when you dont.  Sure we all like to win, but I dont mind getting beat by a good one.  Sometimes I leave a show thinking "How in the world did we get beat by that?" and yet there are still plenty of times I leave a show thinking "How on earth did we win that?"  I have been known to look at families I am helping and say " Well, we gave it all we could, we found a good one, and yall did a heck of a job gettin her fed right.  She looks darn good today, but that one over there is about to hand us our rearends on a platter."
I dont think its a lack of pride in an animal you sold to be able to recognize and admit that another one is better, personally I think that is more of a sign of maturity, honesty, and integrity.  I would probably be more inclined to do business with someone who had the integrity to be honest and admit out loud that the one he sold or sent in the ring wasnt the best one, rather than try to point out all the ways that his was better and convince the people he sold her to that she should have been the winner.

One sure sign of maturity is knowing when to keep your big mouth shut. Doesn't matter how old you are. Ask AJ if you can find him.

To root against a kid who's family has chosen to give you their hard earned money and OUT LOUD, is pure stupidity from a business standpoint. Stupidity is another sure sign of immaturity. Doing ANYTHING that could possibly denigrate a child's efforts, which is why I am opening my big mouth here, is beyond stupidity. The point in the original post has nothing to do with the man stating they were about to lose to a superior animal. The point of the post wasn't who had the superior animal or who recognized that and who didn't.  Coach stated he was actively encouraging and pulling for someone else other than the family who chose to buy from him. There is nothing in that that reflects honesty, maturity or integrity, much the opposite.
 

BuckeyeBeef2

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In that case, i do not know what the problem was ??? and that does sound a little ridiculous.  If he thought it would be funny to be sarcastic, maybe this guy has a bad since of humor.  But, any breeder should encourage their customer...not fill them with false hope....but man, atleast encouragement.
 

coachmac

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I do not have a problem with competition, peoples opinions......and for that matter I salivate over competition and use others opinions to gain knowledge or to understand that persons lack of it.  Because a person has an opinion does not mean that I have to agree or disagree.........but to watch a person that has been given a fair sum of money, root for, and encourage another showmans heifer that they had no contact with throughout the season seemed way less than honorable.  Especially when the encouragement seemed to come at the opportune time when a heifer that they had sold was being led into the ring by the current young owner....not a ringer brought in to lead a heifer around, but by the kid that bought the animal.  Been in this long enough to know right from wrong, and that my good people, was flat wrong.  Age, intelligence, maturity, experience......all of that is out the window with this incident.  A lack of any of those is nothing more than an excuse.  Bottom line, the buyer in this situation got beat in class, didnt like it and proceeded to try to tear down a young showman by getting in their head as they entered the ring of an open show.  I can only hope that this was this INDIVIDUAL trying to show off their butt and not the general consensus of the family as as whole where the animal was purchased.   
 

twistedhshowstock

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I guess I dont know what was said, I have never been to a lot of shows where there was a lot of yelling or open pulling for a specific one to win.  Most of the time its chearing and applauding when one walks in and then pretty much silence except for the occasional parent or such trying to get a kids attention in the ring to tell em to do something.  So when they said pulling for one, I just assumed they meant the person said that the other heifer was the one that should win. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that  in my opinion if the other heifer is the better heifer.  Thats not disrespecting the family that bought from you, its being honest with them.
If he was actively yelling support for the other heifer, then I think that would be strange for a cattle show in itself!
 

DLD

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I agree, it seems kinda odd, and chances are there's something not quite right there.  But a couple of other possibilities do come to mind...  Stock shows are kinda like politics, they make for strange bedfellows - you never quite know for sure what all the connections are, and even if you think you do you probably still don't - I've even seen guys do that when they didn't get along with the judge and wanted him to think they were connected to the one they actually want to see get beat (never really witnessed this in the cattle barn, but sure have in the sheep barn).  And the other is that I myself have been known to root for the one I felt sure we couldn't beat, but felt like we could follow and be reserve behind.  It's hard to know what the family (that was showing the heifer from the guy in question) knows or thinks about it all, but if all they know is what we do (or maybe if they know more),  then I'd think they must feel slighted.
 

GONEWEST

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You can rationalize it, TWIST it anyway you want. It's stupidity. You can pour syrup on cow patties, it still don't make them pancakes.
 
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