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Offline nobody

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Fitters??
« on: November 08, 2011, 02:26:20 AM »
There are a couple of posts on here asking questions about fitters so here's mine... is it unethical to have a fitter or someone that helps at a jr. show? I know what the rules say, but the barn at ft worth is filled with people that make their living fitting other peoples cattle. What is everyones opinion on this?

Offline cownerd

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 06:45:19 AM »
Well I think it's ok because I fit for lots of juniors.

Offline twistedhshowstock

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 12:06:20 PM »
I think it depends on the extent the "help" goes to.  If it is just a fitter coming in to help with show day preps, clipping, coaching, etc...then no I dont think it is at all a problem...but again I may be biased because I will be one of the ones there doing that.  But if it is a situation where the parents have paid the fitter, the fitter has raised the calf, the kid has only seen it at shows, the fitter hauls it to the show, and you never see the kid anywhere around the calf until the calf gets to the gate of the showring, then in the Jr shows yes I have a problem with that.
Now in the Open Shows...I say its all fair game...the open show is about a breeder marketing their product, so if they hire someone to market that product for them, then so be it.

Offline AI Man

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 01:29:32 PM »
that's completely right if its a junior show then they at least need to be doing the daily work

Offline cownerd

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2011, 02:28:04 PM »
Yeah that is too far if a fitter is doing the daily work for a junior.

Offline angus214

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2011, 03:35:50 PM »
I have a 10 yr old son that shows angus cattle. He does all the daily care of his heifers. At the shows the farm we bought our heifers from will come help him clip and fit them. I see nothing wrong with this because there is no way my 10 yr old can clip and fit on his own and be competitive.
Pam Cooper
Cooper Farms

Offline OLD WORLD SHORTIE

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2011, 03:40:22 PM »
i dont see the fitters as the issue, I would have to say the stomach pumping is a bigger issue at the jr shows.
America Hell yea! Coming to save the mother loving day!
I make people angry that's my fault. I'm a line stepper, im a habitual line stepper.

Offline chambero

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2011, 04:16:24 PM »
A lot of people don't like the idea of fitters and think it gives an unfair advantage.  The reality is that if you eliminate them, you have almost zero chance - only the professional families will have a chance.  It takes a long, long time to get good enough at clipping and fitting to compete at the highest level, some people just don't have that skill (me included).  At least with rules the way they are you can hire help.

Fort Worth does a better job of enforcement on some of the other rules than you mention.  A serious contender for Champion Angus got kicked out before the show because of stomach pumping last year.  That was a family that was more than a little unhappy with their "expert" fitter.  Fort Worth is very quiet about rule enforcement, but they are serious about it.  For example, they also DQ'd a grand overall not that many years ago because apparently there was enough evidence that steer didn't "live at home" but at the fitters in Hereford.  That became public because a lawsuit was filed. 

Offline Sambosu

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 04:24:32 PM »
If a child does all the work at home,  I have no issue with having someone help fit the calf at the shows.  Saying this, I think it would be best to only allow cattle to be shown slick.  Getting rid of the hair would give more people a chance and get rid of the need to hire fitters, buy coolers, etc.  

Saying this, I am totally against the individuals that pay a steer jockey high dollars for a calf and then let them raise it while the child does nothing but show up at a show and lead it around the ring and go home without the calf.  It goes totally against everything 4H and FFA stands for.  It teaches your kids nothing.  Believe me I know how difficult it is to say no when an expert offers their services but it is wrong.  I also don't see how one can even get gratification from winning when you had nothing to do with it.  

Lastly, I feel the same way with pumping cattle.  It is wrong.  I can't tell you how bad my son wants to win but I am not going to pump a calf.  If a calf doesn't have enough volume, feed them better or buy a better calf.  If we tell our children, grand children, friends one thing but then do another we are teaching them nothing.  The most important thing to showing is teaching your kids responsibility and hard work pays off.  


Sorry about the long comment....

Offline OLD WORLD SHORTIE

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 06:39:59 PM »
America Hell yea! Coming to save the mother loving day!
I make people angry that's my fault. I'm a line stepper, im a habitual line stepper.

Offline The Show

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 06:48:27 PM »
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. We hired fitters for several years until I got good, and now I do our cattle as well as other people's for both open and junior shows. I hate the not fair argument about hair. People with coolers have an advantage over people that don't, but coolers require more work and time than a blower and fans do. Genetics has a lot to do with growing hair, but hard work is a very close second.

Offline nobody

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 01:34:34 AM »
The reason for my question is, we have someone in our county that is basically harassing us about this issue. He will do stuff like cornering our kid at shows when we are not around. Our cattle stay at our house 24/7,and we do all the day to day work, feed/rinse/blow dry/clip etc. But for the majors and maybe our county show we have someone that helps us clip or fit on show day. We do not pay this person, he uses his vacation time and pays his own way. He does it because he loves cattle and helping kids. I really don't see anything wrong with it either. We have competed with people that have live in fitters or send their cattle up north during the summer. More power to 'em, this just gives us more of an incentive to work harder at home. And I think if you aren't doing your homework at home just hiring a fitter on show day probably isn't going to do much. This is really a none issue at san antonio and houston, but the rules seem so blurred at ft worth.

Offline bk2005

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 08:06:02 AM »
The reason for my question is, we have someone in our county that is basically harassing us about this issue. He will do stuff like cornering our kid at shows when we are not around. Our cattle stay at our house 24/7,and we do all the day to day work, feed/rinse/blow dry/clip etc. But for the majors and maybe our county show we have someone that helps us clip or fit on show day. We do not pay this person, he uses his vacation time and pays his own way. He does it because he loves cattle and helping kids. I really don't see anything wrong with it either. We have competed with people that have live in fitters or send their cattle up north during the summer. More power to 'em, this just gives us more of an incentive to work harder at home. And I think if you aren't doing your homework at home just hiring a fitter on show day probably isn't going to do much. This is really a none issue at san antonio and houston, but the rules seem so blurred at ft worth.

im supprised that P.O.S. hasn't lost some teeth yet.
Just goin with the flo never gets you ahead.

Offline twistedhshowstock

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 08:20:44 AM »
Yeah an adult cornering your kid when you arent around is an issue that needs to be dealt with.  The rules really arent that blurred at Ft Worth, like Chambero said, they really do a good job enforcing the rules, they just dont come with sirens blarin to do it.  They are more likely to do it quietly so the whole world dont know about it.
One area I find people getting mad about and saying the rules are blurred is the pumping/drenching issue.  It is illegal at all the shows to pump cattle.  Pumping refers to actually running a tube down the esophagus and into the cows stomach and pumping em full of fluids. At most shows drenching is still legal, drenching doesnt force anything into the stomach, it just puts the fluid at the back of the mouth and strongly encourages them to swallow....lol. But drenching is still legal at most shows, though a lot of them are telling you to do it in a wash rach or somewhere out of the public eye.  But I often times see people see other people drenching and their off the races to tell show officials that somebody is cheating and pumping a calf.  At the TJLA Camp Show there was a forum presented on being proactive and out front in educating the people on why we do the things we do so that we dont have to hide to do them, drenching was one of the things discussed, we need educate the public that we drench to insure our animals stay hydrated and drenching is not in fact cruel. I think thats a good point, but how are we going to educate the public when the  people showing dont even know the difference.

Offline cownerd

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Re: Fitters??
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 01:08:34 PM »
amen Jarred

 

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