For Mark Tennenbaum

r.n.reed · Jan 16, 2015

Here is a March 31st Frontline out of a 7/8ths sister to Frontlines dam.

mark tenenbaum · Jan 16, 2015

(clapping) (clapping) <party> (thumbsup) Might be an example of what the breed would look like if Improver never showed up-But not if Dividend never showed O0

r.n.reed · Jan 16, 2015

Thanks Mark,thought you might appreciate him even if he didn't have any maine in him.Reg.# is 4207648.

knabe · Jan 16, 2015

I love how the raw pics show off the animal better.

knabe · Jan 16, 2015

http://www.kapercattle.com/frontline.html

knabe · Jan 17, 2015

Might like frontline's sire.

Good job

mark tenenbaum · Jan 17, 2015

r.n.reed said:
Thanks Mark,thought you might appreciate him even if he didn't have any maine in him.Reg.# is 4207648.//// UNLESS-he goes back to Cujo-just a guess,havent read the pedigree Nope goes back to Haumont-Duke of Dublin,Wo Dividend,Rodeo Drive (little Chi for the homefolks) and some of the other thicker dual cattle:like Deertrail private eye-Guiness by Marvel I believe-only saw Ayatollah once way back.-Ones like him,or the dover greatgrandsons-are what you breed the hiefers to-Harold Hoskins produced some really great cattle that way-He just wasnt upfront (no pun untended) about it-That breeding with a little of this n that-as long as the BWS on both sides are in check-and especially the maternal -becomes a situation where they compliment each other-which the old Shorthorns were obviously genetically predisposed to do-Cant hurt that bad-Plus hes thick and has hair-Whats not to like? O0

r.n.reed · Jan 17, 2015

Thanks Knabe,I like looking at cattle in the raw as well.
Mark, the Haumont Influence is definitely strong in this calf, the other individuals that you mentioned I would say have a minimal influence.They are a minimum of 8-10 generations back and only appear once, R.D. is twice back there.Having had the benefit of seeing these cattle first hand as they have been developed for 11 generations I would attribute the biggest influence to the Port O Call x Helianthus 5a combination.There is a lot of other cattle in the pedigree including 26a that would have similar foundations to the 5a cow.
I am using a son of Frontline on the Frontline and 4508 daughters and have a picture of him below.
He will be 3 this year.That is Frontline behind him.The only thing I don't like about him is he has the genetic propensity to find mud even in a drought and stay dirty.
I don't know much about Harold Hoskins breeding program,but his words of encouragement to a sophomore in high school who had just been rudely admonished in front of others by a quote breed leader for making a stupid mistake is a major reason I am in this business today. By the way my stupid mistake was buying Helianthus 44th to start my herd.

mark tenenbaum · Jan 17, 2015

First of all its a huge honor to me that youd mention my name and show some good cattle like these-Harold Hoskins and Ed Grathwohl (Deertrail Ranch) bred dual and Irish and Maine (and registered as such)with Harold bringing maine-Simm and Charolais more or less unannounced along the way in his herd to get em bigger-and not lose the thickness-ALOT of his cattle from the 60s on went to Texas-and so did his entire herd near the end of his life-never to be heard from-(AT LEAST AS HIS PREFIX) again.I came along (1989-90) when some of those older cows were still around-and they were not all skinny harddoing stick cows. HAROLD REALLY SAID-THE MAINE DUAL THING WORKS-and if you ever saw Exclusives Carrie-you might agree. Now: thier dual cattle came from the marvel herd-and as AJ mentioned about the HUBS cattle-they were big and thick-and the influance Deertrail had on the breed for many years is undisputed. THE OTHER cattle they used alot of-were the Carvin Guy Hilltop breding-which was Dual (probably Haumont) and Sullear-But: they didnt like Ayatollah-instead they used Mark 4 because they Knew he had a shot of maine-and alot of Guiness-brcause he really worked on those dual cows-along with Cunia, Covino. Dollar2. ETC.Alot of others including Waukaru had Hilltop Cattle too.-Nothing you dont already know. Bottom line-I really think your deal would work with the Mark 4-Byland Dazzler Lauer-Loving line bred Enticer (way back ) breeding-and ON CLUBBY-OR THE LATEST HARD CALVING HARDDOING CATTLE. What would be a line id love to see-that breeding on something like the Sull Payday deal-who has a good Lauer cow who goes way back basically to alot of the Deertrail type dual stuff-and a shot of at least ez keeping deep ribbed (Ive seen em) EZ CALVING MAINE-(YOU KNOW THAT WAS COMING) OR-GB Daybreak Express MANY years proven GROWTHY CALVING ease BYLAND DAZZLER out of a LAZY D QUANE LINCOLN RED COW-who Gordon Brockmueler told me was a GREAT ONE. Great job sticking to your guns-and hats off from this profound rambling fallen from the fold admirer of your program. O0

r.n.reed · Jan 19, 2015

knabe said:
Might like frontline's sire.

Good job

Here is the most recent picture of Kaper 4508,Frontlines sire taken this fall at 6 1/2 yrs.I have also attached a picture of a 10 month old 4508 son we have here.He has gained 4.27 lbs/day the last 38 days.

Dale · Jan 19, 2015

Kaper 4508 is the bull we are breeding most of our heifers to. He's gone to a great home in KS! 4508 has no holes in him--that's the way Gary designs them.

shortyjock89 · Jan 19, 2015

Gary, 4508 is exactly the type of bull I had in mind when we talked. I'm even more anxious to get back home to come look.

mark tenenbaum · Jan 19, 2015

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
Gary, 4508 is exactly the type of bull I had in mind when we talked. I'm even more anxious to get back home to come look.

/// I will be out sometime too-I got bashed pretty good in the Improver thread by a "native breeder"-And when he listed himself with the Haumont herd and others as breeders saving the strain-He forgot about Gary Kaper: and these pictures pretty well tell the story.And further more-I have had cattle related to some of his even though distantly so THERE. I still think the Kaper Cattle-would really work on the wound up Gold-outcross Canadian bred cattle of Grants (JIT) like the really good red bull in his latest thread: and again-really good functional bulls there. O0-JMO.

shortyjock89 · Jan 19, 2015

If you're ever at Gary's, my family lives about 15 minutes away, basically right down the road.

I wish I would have been a little quicker on the uptake with the kind of cattle the Kapers raise. Herds like that are an incredible resource for show cattle people if only they'd open their eyes a little.

mark tenenbaum · Jan 20, 2015

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
If you're ever at Gary's, my family lives about 15 minutes away, basically right down the road.

I wish I would have been a little quicker on the uptake with the kind of cattle the Kapers raise. Herds like that are an incredible resource for show cattle people if only they'd open their eyes a little. /// (thumbsup) <rock> <beer>ESPECIALLY THE HIEFERS-and like Harold Hoskins said (you just had to see his cattle-ASK GARY BUCHOLTZ) THE DUAL MAINE THING WORKS-unbekownst to me-he also stood up for RN REED as mentioned. O0

r.n.reed · Feb 3, 2015

Here are some updated pictures of the calf I started this thread with.He has gained an average of 3.05 lbs/day the last 90 days,3.42 the last 42.His dollar value breed rankings are top 15% for CEZ,55% for F,and top 10%for BMI.

kiblercattle · Feb 3, 2015

That's a great looking calf! What do you believe his mature frame and weight will be?

mark tenenbaum · Feb 3, 2015

r.n.reed said:
Here are some updated pictures of the calf I started this thread with.He has gained an average of 3.05 lbs/day the last 90 days,3.42 the last 42.His dollar value breed rankings are top 15% for CEZ,55% for F,and top 10%for BMI.//// YA-Hes a good looking rascal-in the picture he appears maybe a little thicker than the bull at Lovings-Which really aeemed to work on thier breeding-so hed work om Waukaru-and JITS red calf posted-that kind of Gold breeding along with the others real well-HED WORK WAY GOOD ON clubby cattle too-LOL-I knew you didnt want to hear that-But almost anything with your breeding would be hiefer-trainwreck safe-along with the retention of an atrractive easy feeding profile O0

r.n.reed · Feb 3, 2015

kiblercattle said:
That's a great looking calf! What do you believe his mature frame and weight will be?

Thanks for the comments everyone.Kibler,at 10 months he is a low 5 frame score.His sire now 5 has maintained a 5 frame score and I would expect this calf to do the same.I would expect him to weigh 2200 at maturity in good breeding condition.

JTM · Feb 4, 2015

I really like the bull calf Gary. Very nice!

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