JDMC ROYAL COMMANDO 3Y Discussing pedigrees

-XBAR- said:

r.n.reed said:

The problem is that at least for the carcass traits we as a breed need to make a high accuracy reference sire first.

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I think this is the underlying issue with Shorthorn EPDs in general.  The legitimacy of the EPDs of many of the 'reference sires' is suspect at best (who/what was their performance originally benchmarked against? )

Besides the promotion of mongrels as seed stock,  the second most troubling occurrence is the promotion of a bull as 'proven' when he may have only sired a hundred calves.  Even a couple hundred calves is NOTHING in terms of validating a bull as a benchmark reference for the entire breed!!! So not only are the EPDS of these reference sires themselves suspect, but now the EPDS of these 'proven' : reference sires are being used as an index to evaluate the performance of other bulls??? You haaaaaave got to be kidding me. 

With the limited use of shorthorn bulls, there is no check and balance.  We have breeders using these 'reference sires' not because they know the reference's  EPDs accurately reflect their true performance, but rather because they know the reference's EPDs are overinflated to the point that they feel with certainty their walking bull can easily outperform them.  You see this approach used by those who are just too honest  : to blatantly falsify the performance with their contemporary groups.  Many others just rely on the tried and true approach of simply lying and burying the references sires' calves in the very bottom of their contemporary group. 
Wildly enough, with the new database showing the (stated) performance of all calves in each reported contemporary groups, you would amazed at how often I come across the latter approach being implemented.

  In other breeds, by virtue of many many breeders having access and using the same bulls, these questionable breeders and their practices are exposed when other breeders submit progeny data that glaringly conflicts with their reportings.    In shorthorns, all you need to do is find you a buddy breeder that'll collude with you, and the next thing you know you've got "the #1 blah blah bull in the breed."  It's a win win for the shady:  they get to say their bull is whatever they want, and because the bulls not available on the open market, there's no one who can ever contest the claims.  Even better is that once they engineer their bull's EPD's to where they want them, the bull will suddenly die  : and then they'll use him AI as a reference sire for their next bull.  Occasionally, you'll see semen on that bull consigned to a sale but, in order to prevent any honest progeny reporting going forward, the shady bastards will collude with a pre determined 'buyer' who they know will not only run the price of the semen up far above any reasonable market value, but who'll also "buy into the exclusive offer' and play their game. 

At this point I don't know what the solution is.  We need a way to set the cheap talk and manipulated numbers aside so that we can objectively identify the most superior cattle.   







Best thing I've read on here in forever.

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