jds stout

i think thats the same link twice

re your commercial Maines that were Kate Moss like - what were the genetics? Where were these cows wintered? I gathered your Herefords looked like Kristy Alley or Ophra in her non slim times....

Caesar, payback, dry ice..
A Poll primer first year heifer I was told she looked more like miss moss plus 5 sandwiches when she died in an unassisted birth to the thickest heifer calf iv even seen (my mother sold her for 150 bucks that day) (I have never known anyone of having a cow die and a calf live before…)
Im having issues remembering them, many seemed to go back to power plant or chi influence of some type.
It was a cold Ohio winter.  Freak lightning struck one too.
I should also say I had a gray first year heifer in the group who was almost half angus that came out looking just fine with a fabulous PA DO Suds bull calf walking behind her.  Only wish I could get a few more of her again…

only one hereford was as cute as kristy alley, they are kinda an ugly group..

hart said:

i think thats the same link twice

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fixed i hope

hart said:

Caesar, payback, dry ice.

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Not sure you had the right sires to get out of the Moss thing - Caesars aren't known to be easy keepers but they did well in the show ring with 30 lbs of grain a day Don't know what the Maine is in Payback, but he is low percentage and a PHA carrier - haven't the foggiest who dry ice is - could be out of a variety of "ice" families - Ice Pick, Black Ice etc

Northerer of you my purebred Maines get no grain - BCS of 6 +/- - they are bigger cows and wean big calves - breed back on 1 or 2 AIs - but I select for those traits (plus temperament) - I think you can select for what you want with high percentage Maines - crossed with RA or the right Shorthorns you can also do pretty well

for what it's worth, i have a 9 year old direct midas out of a powerplant cow that breeds on first ai every time.  the other's are a struggle.
never pulled a calf from her.  she squirted one out at 120 in about 20 minutes.  she's too good of a milker and probably if free range would struggle a little bit.  she never gets any grain, only pasture and hay.  she raises my best calf every year.  desperately trying to replace her.

One of the worst keepers we ever had was a Polled Premier, we feed heavy here on our show heifers and if we can't put weight on you know they are hard keepers, she came from a good cow line and we tried several different lines trying to get something out of her and finally gave up and flushed her to Heat Wave, she was a horrible cow, but we sold some of our highest dollar club calves out of that mating.
I do understand your Kate Moss comment and we have had that experience with the FJH lines of cattle, Caeser and any of the Ice lines would fall right in there,  I know they carry prestige and power, but we haven't had one we could keep condition on yet.

we don't do much of the maine deal...  but we do have one ceaser granddaughter-- i wouldn't classify her as a hard doer- but I wouldn't classify her as an ground sow though either.  She milks real well, and she can live on grass- needs a bit of grain to raise a calf-  She does raise some awefully good calves for us though- plenty of power from both sides...  Course it might be the fact that her mother is a Double Stuff x Who Made Who! 

hart - a bull I have just started using but with some age and history on him is Taz - half blood Maine with Magic and Cunia - bred to a high % MA you will get a 3/4. Calves are moderate, thick, correct, easy fleshing, and reasonably tempered - Another bull I have had really good luck with is Topper- a bull that was never as "famous" as many of the high hyped bulls or programs that often create cattle that are unable to perform in anything but the pampered show world; Topper females are good cows, correct with adequate thickness, feminine, good milkers, easy keepers and fertile - he does carry color and red -Strutt calves are born small and pretty, good milkers, but are rather framey without much thickness and have generally a flighty unpleasant attitude - but Strutt behind the parents seems a good thing  - there are a lot of good old Maine bulls around but since the breed has changed it's focus to be the show breed of mutts the newer bulls are not necessarily useful in the real world

I sold an 15 year old last year that bred AI every time on the first time while I had her.  She was a Heart Beat daughter from a FB cows.  She was huge but maintained her cover and always raised a great calf.  I bred her to Bouncer to downsize her and have a wonderful heifer who just calved at 22 months of age.  I also sold two Chi-Angus that were 14 and a Semi that was 14 and a Lemi that was 14 who had twins.  All bred easy and kept their condition.

I have a 7 year old that is hard to breed out of Krypponite.  She was a show heifer.  She has raised some really great calves that breed easy, but one does not and does milk and she has had her last calf for me.  She is out of a Draft Pick grandson.  She has the greatest appetite but does not have great conditioning.  I do not want another one like her.

Jill, DL told us what bulls she likes that carry conditioning well and breed back well with good dispositions.  What is your experience?  What bulls do you like?

Knabe,
What bulls do you think will make the desired muscling, conditioning, good breeding, and hang on a rail a great carcass?

Have to agree with DL on the Midas lines, ZTA Black Ruby's are some of the best this breed has had.
Our best cow here came from MCF, she is out of Trojan (Pistol Pete) out of a Simmi/Maine cow, this cow has produced heifers every year except this year and we have kept 7 of them in the herd.

Joe Boy said:

Knabe,
What bulls do you think will make the desired muscling, conditioning, good breeding, and hang on a rail a great carcass?

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the muscling, i'm working on, the conditioning, i have no idea other than selfishness should be reduced, and carcass, well, in my book, it's gotten worse and less predictable for a breed that advertises itself as a carcass breed.  i have my ideas, but that's all they are.

I have looked at Taz in ads in the past and liked him.  but iv never seen a calf out of him (cuz noone i know used him), so its good to hear you have used him with positive results. 
Many of the older animals i have taken a likely to in the field hail from Pistol Pete (and stout but we have covered that).  Is he or a son of his a bad choice?  Is he too tall or whatnot for today?  and i guess i should do a google search to even see if buying semen is doable.

Im finding all the info and feedback GREATLY useful and interesting!

Pistol Pete available from SEK (other places too I am sure) - either 15 or 20. Good cows, bigger framed, chrome - there were a couple of Pete cows that I really wanted - depending on your preference may be too framey - but Taz would down size them. I tried multiple times to get a Pete daughter and kept getting bulls - so I gave up - but I still have semen so I could try again  ;D

TRY!  (then again it would kinda stink if you end up with a bull calf thats too tall).
well we covered a few of em you all think are good cow/everything makers.  any other tried and true ones come to mind (Iv been looking at some shorthorns lately here and there too but in my area theres only a few breeders around so if leaves me with little first hand info to go on.