LCCC Churchhill daugthers in production

We are waiting for a Churchhill X Weston Dynamo to calve : I have no experience with the Sonny line but wonder if this 1st calf heifer will have milk? Anyone have Churhhills in production??

The Sonny's we have had were great on milk. I am not familiar with Churchill females. But for us, Sonny's did well. One o fthe better heifers we had was a Sonny x Bad Moon Rising. Just couldn't take the attitude. She mlked great and calved 98#er with minimal assistance but had a rotten attitude. I think that came from the Bad Moon side.

OH breeder - you always have the answers. I keep you posted on this one

Sue.....if it is a bull calf I may be interested in him.

While I have not had any Churchill's myself, I think there should be some milk behind this heifer, so I would expect her to milk well. I have only had three Sonny daughters in my herd ( 2 are still here) and they milk well and have great udders. The Dynamos were also great udders and milked well.... some of the Dynamo daughters almost had too much milk. Dynamo was sired by a Haumont bull, Cherry Rex, which is dual purpose ( and double registered) breeding. There is lots of milk in Dynamo's background.

Wouldn't Dynamo be fairly moderate? Did nold breed him?

Dynamo was supposedly bred by Frosty Acres in California and born at Doc Nold's. The Weston herd was one of the greatest sets of cows I have ever seen, and I made several trips there over the years. I knew the cows almost as good as they did. Doc kinda made his pedigrees up as he went along, so I was never real sure what any of them were, other than I was quite positive that they were all Shorthorn breeding. I do think he used far more of the dual purpose strain than most anyone will ever know.

Dynamo was on the upper end of moderate, and was probably a 2300 lb bull in pasture condition. You could pick his daughters out in the herd as they were quite refined, feminine, with super udders and lots of milk. His calves has some muscle and had very nice shape to them. Gary Hansen in ND has a pretty good Dynamo yearling bull that he is developing. I saw him as a calf and was very impressed. Gary says he may not be big enough for some people but he is going to use him in his herd.

JIT I appreciate the history lessons you can give on older herds and their breeding. Makes a fella like me a little more educated. <beer>

She is as moderate but not deep and thick . Hair coat like a murray grey. Conception rate was not satifactory and udder is ok ? Sorry aj no sire potential here.
Today I saw two Sonnys that milked really well  and loved pretty good doing it? I think this one will melt after calving
Really loved her dam
 

sue said:

She is as moderate but not deep and thick . Hair coat like a murray grey. Conception rate was not satifactory and udder is ok ? Sorry aj no sire potential here.
Today I saw two Sonnys that milked really well  and loved pretty good doing it? I think this one will melt after calving
Really loved her dam
   

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I keep looking back at my posts and realize I just need to put the 40 yr old glasses on to type? I struggle with this cuz i am really 39 - so if you wonder if I have been fighting this all winter. I do have a education but cannot see anymore  typos typos typos

Sue, I feel your pain on the glasses thing.I keep 3 pair to cover all the different scenario's.Speaking of the Weston line,I had a real nice dark roan heifer calf by Weston Surprise out of the dam of 4508.I sure wish there was some genetics available from the old Jackson cattle that Martin Nold started with.

r.n.reed said:

Sue, I feel your pain on the glasses thing.I keep 3 pair to cover all the different scenario's.Speaking of the Weston line,I had a real nice dark roan heifer calf by Weston Surprise out of the dam of 4508.I sure wish there was some genetics available from the old Jackson cattle that Martin Nold started with.

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r n reed. I bought a cute pair but you're probably right about mulitple pairs.  I think this CH female is carrying twins- ther slip in weight would explain everything - she looked as fleshy as the rest this past summer?
I have been on a  5 year hunt for Leader the 5th. "mighty mr Modern" ? I have 6 and 9 but saw pics of 5th daughters in a Thomas female sale?? Your March ad looked good and was long over due-

Sue,Thanks for the compliment on the ad,Leader the 5th would truly be a find.I saw the Thomas cows at R.Lee Johnsons after they had been moved to Ohio.They were impressive and amazingly uniform.Also went to Teegardens on that trip, still remember about 30 bred heifers grazing in a row that the grass finishers would die for today.Both outfits wanted more than a freshman in high school could afford so I bought the last remnant of the Meadowbrook herd and the Haumont heifer.

So your glasses are thicker then mine??  Drappier, Thomas and  Gordan  sold in this sale - all used sons of the 21st.  The photo of the 5th is not very clear but was used in many ads. It cracks me up to see the "janet" family now is not even recognized as the Bettys of the Thomas herd? Ok I just started another thread- cow families.

We used Dynamo on a few cows while we were waiting for possession of Weston Goliath.  One daughter of Dynamo we raised, would look good now.  Your mating could be a good one.

I do not ever remember Kinnaber Leader 5th being collected but if he was, I do not think his semen was ever marketed. I used to work a lot with John and Mac Draper and it seems to me that they had told me this once. Personally, I do not think Leader 5th was the best of the Leader line. IMO, he was not in the same league as Leader 6th, Leader 9th, or Leader 3rd ( George the Giant) He looked magnificent in his picture, however he was one of the smaller Leader bulls and many of his offspring were considered to be too small for the times even back then in the 60s. After a couple years of using Leader 5th, the Drapers started looking for some new herd sires. The first they found was Kenmar Ransom 32Z ( Tank). The next one they found was Four Point Major ( Massive Major). Both of these bulls were found in commercial herds.

Leader 6th and Leader 9th were full brothers. Leader 6th was the best looking bull of the Leader line, probably because he was used in the herd of Alf Dreger in SK for several years before he went to Thomas Farms, and later to Millvale in ND. The Alf Dreger herd was named Pheasant Creek Shorthorns, and he maintained it at 6-8 cows. This is probably why Leader 6th was the most impressive of the leader line, as he only had to breed a few cows each year until he was 5 or 6 years old, and he probably had grain every day as well. The most cows he ever had was 8 and he always had 3-4 two year old bulls at Regina Bull Sale that were simply awesome for the times. I have 7 ET calves this year from Pheasant Creek Leader 4th who was the last Shorthorn herd sire at Remitall Cattle CO, Olds, AB . He was Champion and Top selling bull at the 1970 Regina Bull Sale at $7400. ( In 2010 dollars this would represent $43350)  IMO, Pheasant Creek Leader 4th was probably the best sire ever from the Leader line, followed closely by Leader 9th and Leader 6th.

The 5th was quoted as being heaviest muscled on the leader line. Nice that you more bulls from the past on the ground - how did the 21st calves turn out?

My Leader 21 calves have developed well.I was quite disappointed in them for quite awhile after they were born, but by mid summer, I had sorted them off to go into our fall show string. I only had two calves by Leader 21 and sold several embryos and pregnancies from him. Uluru got a nice heifer from the pregnancy he purchased. Some others sold to breeders in Iowa, and some sold to Scotland. The Leader 21 bull calf won his class at Agribition and the heifer calf was second in class. The bull calf, HC Leader's Legacy 9U, sold to Ryan Galbreath, Enderlin, ND  and we kept a 1/3 semen interest in him.We used him on some Major Leroy and Pioneer heifers and we have some very nice calves from him. All came unassisted at birth, so he is looking like he could be a real option for use on heifers.  The heifer calf is at Raymond Carnes, Tyler, TX. I kept an embryo interest in this heifer as well.

I would agree that Leader 5th was probably the heaviest muscled of the Leader line. When I first saw him, I thought he was the next great bull of the breed. After a couple crops of calves I was liking some of the other Leader bulls better.

I think it is good that the Leader line is being re-introduced but I like it a little further back in the pedigree.My favorite Leader line bulls are Kenmar President 26a and Pheasant Creek Leader 4th who are sired by full brothers and out of Hi-Way or Hi-Way influenced females.Justintime I am glad you found some Leader 4th  as I think that bull has a lot to offer.

When Remitall dispersed, my dad purchased the semen interest in Pheasant Creek Leader 4th. We got about 250 vials of semen and it was sent directly to us. We stored it here on the farm for several years and used about 40 vials. As luck would have it, the tank which held over 200 vials of Leader 4th semen along with 32 embryos, ruptured and we lost all of this.This was probably 15 years after we had acquired it.  It was one of the worst days in my life!! I searched for many years for any other Leader 4th semen but was unable to find any.

In November, 2008, I was eating supper at Agribition with a fellow from Prince Edward Island and I mentioned that I had sold some Leader 4th semen to a breeder in PEI, back in the 70s. I could not remember his name and I had never heard of him since. This fellow started naming some people and when he mentioned one name, I stopped him, and said I think that he had just named the breeder who had bought the Leader 4th semen. He said that this man had sold his cows many years ago and he doubted if he still had any semen. He called his mother in PEI and had her look up the his phone number in the phone book. While we sat there eating our supper, he called this man and I was amazed when he said he still had all the semen and he would sell it back to me for what he had purchased it for. He also had a couple vials of Scotsdale Rodney, and 14 vials of Cumberland Gay Lad ( a super thick, and easy fleshing bull bred by Martin Nold). I was able to buy all the semen for $400. It turned out that this man had sold his cows in 1978, but he had kept his semen tank full of nitrogen for 30 years since he had owned any cattle.
To make this story even more amazing, I asked him if he could ship the semen by courier to our Transplant center in Alberta. He said he would try to get it shipped the next day. I had two of my best solid red donors at the ET center and they were to be bred in two days, and I did not think there was any chance of getting the semen there in time. The semen was shipped by Fedex and left PEI at 4 pm the following afternoon, and the ET center 30 miles north of Calgary, AB called me the next morning to tell me the semen was delivered there at 10:30 am just in time to breed the donors. Fedex had delivered this semen almost 3000 miles in 18 hours.... and it only cost me $105 to get it there that quick. I was amazed!!!

I told the ET center to check the semen quality before they bred the donors and they said it was some of the best semen they had used in many years. We ended up getting 17 grade 1 embryos from these two flushes. 8 embryos were implanted last spring, and we have 7 Leader4th calves on the ground.... 6 red polled bulls and 2 red polled heifers. Even though they are from two donors they are almost identical and are probably the most uniform flushmates we have ever had. The only way I can tell them apart is by reading their ear tags. I sold four of these embryos and still have 5 left... and there is one vial of semen left. I think this is the last vial left in existence. I hope to use it in a special flush some day.