Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: aj on February 19, 2009, 07:55:05 AM

Title: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: aj on February 19, 2009, 07:55:05 AM
Are there any Black Angus breeders that linebreed cattle out there? I think Olde and Gardiner have but are there others. Seems like most really use outcrosses as much as possible. I don't know much about the breed and I don't even get the Angus journal anymore.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: simtal on February 19, 2009, 08:21:05 AM
sinclairs have with ext lines
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: knabe on February 19, 2009, 10:35:43 AM
don't wye's, shoshones have linebreds?

perhaps gardiners aren't linebred enough with enough test crosses.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: SD on February 19, 2009, 11:33:22 AM
Well I wouldn't call what Gardiners has done line-breeding. I would call it inbreeding. Line-breeding demands that your selection process be extremely rigid. A still born or abnormal calf is reason to send the cow to the packing house. With serious consideration the bull go too. (especially after two dead calves).

Sounds tuff I know, but after it is done correctly, line-breeding will produce improved cattle.

Not to say the current problem with AM wouldn't still exist but not to the degree it is.


Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: knabe on February 19, 2009, 01:40:29 PM
Well I wouldn't call what Gardiners has done line-breeding.

agree.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: garybob on February 19, 2009, 01:56:25 PM
Don't the Corbitt's in Oklahoma still have the Emulous line of cattle, that are direct descendents of Emulous Bob? There are 300 head of registered, line-bred, fescue-adapted Emulous cattle in my home town. Breeder is named James Fancher Roberts, and his prefix is JFR. He has bulls with high accuracies in the Angus sire summary. He's not using anything in his Sire line-up that doesn't have at least 8 markers (using the Bovigen test).

How are Y'uns?

GB
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: aj on February 19, 2009, 06:42:54 PM
Damn it garybob I've missed you! How are you? Where is DL? We need to get some fired up topics going again.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: xxcc on February 19, 2009, 07:10:24 PM
there some but the true breeders of good cattle are hard to find.  Wye cattle are bred at the University of Maryland.  I am pretty sure they have an annual sale, but it is not large scale.

Try this guy http://www.saddlebutteranch.com/philosophy.html (http://www.saddlebutteranch.com/philosophy.html) Harrison O'Connor is his name.  I have fertility tested bulls and BANGs'd heifers at his place in the past.

Duff cattle at that Power + sale are linebred too.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: aj on February 20, 2009, 07:46:06 AM
Very cool xxcc. Linebreeding is the test for genetic defects and this guy is doing it. I love the breeders that have a vision and stick to it in a breeding program. Thats how you make a difference in genetic improvement. You hammer and you hammer and you stack pedigrees and you hammer some more. These are the breeders that go down in history. People like Sitz,HUBS,Erdman,Bob Dickenson,Bectons,Elbee and whoever. I love to see the pedigrees where you go back 3,4, 5, generations and same same ranch raised these cattle. To me this means genetic evaluation and improvement has occured. I guess if you win a show that is cool and you will be remembered in a photo but it gets to be a "me too" type of thinking. Everybody chases fads and trends. Is the Angus a terminal breed or a maternal breed? Thats why I hate the plus 100 yl. Angus bulls cause I think it is going the wrong direction fast. I saw another sale catalog where a guy  was selling bulls and almost all of the dams of the bulls were raised by someone else. They can't have been under a natural selection pressure litmus test over time. And why were the cows for sale anyway? This Angus breeder has my respect and I wonder if the Angus breed loaded with defects will end up going to guys like him because there isn't enough time or resourses or cooperation to get tests figured out in a timely fashion.jmo
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: powchutu on May 05, 2015, 12:30:29 AM
Pardon me I am not sure how to post a new post but I hope I can ask you guys this question...

I have black Angus (for beef) from my father, he passed away.
Unfortunately my mother sold most of them and I was only to get 3 females and a bull, then now she is claiming the bull.
Im just going to let her take him because she is arguing about it all the time.
However, these females had calves (2 females and one male).
One female cow died by coyotes at my mothers. She had a male calf and we are milking him and doing well at my farm.
My question is....
Since my mother is taking away the bull for money.
I am going to move these cows/calves to my farm soon.
Is it possible to raise this young male calf to a bull and use him to breed the others?????
Or I have to buy another bull from somewhere?
My family is not helping me because I am deaf -they do not talk to me -no one signs at all.
Any help please.
Thanks
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: E6 Durhams on May 05, 2015, 07:57:52 AM
Yes. You could use that bull. The good part about beef cows is you can eat the mistakes.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: Okotoks on May 05, 2015, 11:08:21 AM
You could use him but unless those cows have been tested for any of the Angus genetic defects you could risk having deformed calves. Another consideration is he a good bull? He will be worth some money in the current market so you could consider selling him and using AI or maybe you could arrange for the cows to be bred somewhere near by.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: knabe on May 05, 2015, 12:27:52 PM
I would call this convenience breeding.


You could call the sale yard, ask what current pricing is on Bulls, pay say 80% or whatever to your mother, use the bull, then sell him later and pay your mom the difference.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: RR#2 Cattle Co on May 06, 2015, 10:00:03 PM
Jauer Angus, Hinton, IA
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: kenparrish on May 08, 2015, 07:26:20 PM
We have some of Ken Clark's Craigie cattle that are line bred to Prince Paul of Barnoldby through his sons Genkins and George of Swiftbrook.  They are sired by Jols Eric of Craigie, Jotham Eric of Craigie, Alezus of Craigie, Alexegi of Craigie, and Black Lode of Craigie walking around if you want to glance at the AAA pedigrees.  We also have a number of calves out of our George of Swiftbrook son who walked the pasture until a few years ago.  Our Wye line had several calves sired by Forceful of Wye this year.  Forceful was a son of Valour of Ardrass, Valour was also sired by Prince Paul of Barnoldby.  I have posted pics of some of the Craigie bulls here previously.

Typical pedigree (again keeping in mind that both George of Swiftbrook and Genkins are paternal brothers out of Prince Paul):

 Black Lode of Craigie
Reg: AAA 8454393    Bull
Birth Date:    02/15/1975    Tattoo:    037
Breeder:    
97685 -     K A Clark Estate, Alderson WV

   
      George of Swiftbrook    AAA 2653264
   Alden of Craigie    AAA 3094946    
      Alberta of Craigie    AAA 2528156
Jols Eric of Craigie    AAA 5651060       
      Genkins    AAA 2066940
   Vallea Juana Erica 134 62    AAA 4003836    
      Val Lea Juana Erica    AAA 2017824
         
      George of Swiftbrook    AAA 2653264
   Alezus of Craigie    AAA 3596647    
      Alezenia of Craigie    AAA 2520383
Black Luna of Craigie    AAA 5543703       
      Genkins    AAA 2066940
   Black Lure of Craigie    AAA 2711486    
      Black Lash of Craigie    AAA 1943663
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: kenparrish on May 08, 2015, 08:13:07 PM
Planter of Craigie and Alexegi of Craigie
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: librarian on May 11, 2015, 07:36:49 AM
These guys are a pretty big deal http://diamonddangus.com/2014-DDA-Bull-Sale-catalog.pdf (http://diamonddangus.com/2014-DDA-Bull-Sale-catalog.pdf)
Also there is Cotton Angus and Hyland Angus in South Dakota, Evergreen Angus in Minnesota, Touchstone in Lusk Wyoming has Emulous cattle, Black Queen in NY is blending Emulous, Wye and Pinebank, Octoraro Angus in PA, and Em Brook Angus in PA. Hodge Ranch in Georgia.
And my previous post about the Wye sale. http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/wye-angus-sale-catalog/ (http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/wye-angus-sale-catalog/)
5BarX used to be all about this, haven't looked at what they are discussing lately.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: librarian on April 17, 2021, 03:00:28 PM
There is a sale with a mix of interesting old Angus genetics next Wednesday , April 21, in Volga, SD.
https://sites.google.com/site/cottonangusranch/home/2012-sale-info (https://sites.google.com/site/cottonangusranch/home/2012-sale-info)
If you study the pedigrees, you will see that a linebred strain of Wye x Emulation 31 females with deep Shoshone roots has been top crossed with a son of Rito 707 and a double bred Emblazon son, as well as 3 Columbus of Wye sons. Study the bottom sides of those bulls to see what line BRAIDING is all about.
https://www.dvauction.com/video_catalogs/6689 (https://www.dvauction.com/video_catalogs/6689)
Lot 8 is my favorite. The Lot 21 pedigree shows Rito N Bar, Churchill of Wye and Shoshone Viking...think about that. The 4th great grandsire, Moofassa, is an Alap of Wye son. Alap is a Manning son. Manning is a Columbus son. Alap progeny are in the sale. Columbus sons sired daughters in the sale...just put it all back together. Me? I'm using a couple of those heifers with old Native Shorthorn genetics to make blue roans.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: knabe on April 17, 2021, 03:41:44 PM
Scott Shively . . . . . . . . . . . . . (701) 721-3423

Scott, one of the consultants, will know all about these cattle to 10+ generations deep.
Title: Re: linebreeding Black Angus
Post by: librarian on April 25, 2021, 07:36:56 AM
Scott Shively . . . . . . . . . . . . . (701) 721-3423

Scott, one of the consultants, will know all about these cattle to 10+ generations deep.

Scott was there and I learned many new things about old bloodlines-. An unexpected bonus was getting to see three Luing bulls from Canada that were stopping over in the barn on their way elsewhere. The Angus Breeders were amused that I spent more time in the barn with the Luing bulls than looking at the sale animals. I was very impressed with what I reason are “ missing pieces” from today’s Shorthorns that could be reconstituted with a Luing shot of Hubback’s ghost.