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Author Topic: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver  (Read 23517 times)

Offline aj

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2013, 07:04:52 PM »
Although some Shorties do have the white hoofs.....which I have heard are a softer hoof.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Barry Farms

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2013, 07:24:58 PM »
Can you sell semen on an OS carrier? Can you register them......are they yanked if a carrier? I hate to see the Red Angus have cattle shows......I think that will wreck the breed. Maybe not a valid opinion........but it is mine.

I know what TH & PHA are but what is OS
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Offline cowman 52

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 08:04:43 PM »
Couple of things on epds, I don't have enough cows and calving is not as tight since the fires of 2 years ago, can't make the scans work dollar wise, and dang sure don't care to drive 300 miles one way to take them somewhere.
Second, the birth epd is pretty much a non factor, I'm a heck of a lot more interested in birth shape and not birth weight.  I calve a good number of heifers for others, and when I see them bred to a bold shouldered bull, I don't take them in. A 85 lb calf shaped right will fit in better than a 60 lb calf that is so fine in his make up will never make up the difference,and the commercial buyers keep shuffling him to the back of the line, just never enough mass to suit. I really don't care to ai and the have to make steers out of what I get.

Offline Aussie

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 08:43:58 PM »
I think the carcass scans almot need to be done in contempory groups......and then you can compare in the group. Even then it would be better to compare sire 1's 100 steer progency vs sire 2's 100 steer progency. Scan on one bull could be a shaky deal I would think.
AJ I would say 90% of seedstock producers here scan their contemporary groups of bulls prior to sale I am surprised that is not the case over there. However the scan data does not always correlate or change EVBs
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:14:15 PM by Aussie »

Offline CAB

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2013, 08:05:39 AM »
Can you sell semen on an OS carrier? Can you register them......are they yanked if a carrier? I hate to see the Red Angus have cattle shows......I think that will wreck the breed. Maybe not a valid opinion........but it is mine.


I know what TH & PHA are but what is OS

http://redangus.org/genetics/dna-tools/defects/OS
Here's a link to a summary of the defect through the Red Angus Ass. Web-site. 



Offline BTDT

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2013, 10:08:52 AM »
I guess I give the cattleman more credit than some..... cattleman can see bad feet, bad udders, and structural problems.
But they can't see unethical breeders that make up pedigrees year after year after year and get caught year after year after year and NOTHING GETS DONE.  THAT should be priority ONE.
Two - Stop trying to be black. We were seperated back in the 50's and for a reason. The reds have focused on maternal issues, growth, and longevity. Lets just say the blacks haven't.
Three - The three generation defect rule is not practical. If there is a carrier ANYWHERE in the pedigree it needs to be DNA'd for carrier status. As it has been proven, defects can be carried many generations before they get expressed.
Four - Although they claim to be a "non show breed", they cater to the big show herds by making the National show in Denver. You can show a bull or heifer at Denver and be a "national champion"???? How about multiple shows, beating multiple animals under multiple judges to crown the national champion animal.
Five - Combine the two worlds of show and practicallity by making the show a combination of EPD's, defect carrier status, and physical appearance. Make it 40%, 20%, 40%.   Yes, each judge would place more priority on growth versus milk, but right now, a judge may place more emphisis on big guts versus big teats.  The judge would have a score card.





Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2013, 04:07:09 PM »
Im all in favor of the score card approach.. Blows my mind there is a clear cut winner in a judging contest but judgin the show itself is subjective ???

Offline BTDT

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2013, 10:00:17 PM »
Good point XBar.    I guess my issues made all the fleas jump from the dog.   


Offline Red Cow Relocators

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2013, 10:19:12 PM »
I guess I give the cattleman more credit than some..... cattleman can see bad feet, bad udders, and structural problems.
But they can't see unethical breeders that make up pedigrees year after year after year and get caught year after year after year and NOTHING GETS DONE.  THAT should be priority ONE.
Two - Stop trying to be black. We were seperated back in the 50's and for a reason. The reds have focused on maternal issues, growth, and longevity. Lets just say the blacks haven't.
Three - The three generation defect rule is not practical. If there is a carrier ANYWHERE in the pedigree it needs to be DNA'd for carrier status. As it has been proven, defects can be carried many generations before they get expressed.
Four - Although they claim to be a "non show breed", they cater to the big show herds by making the National show in Denver. You can show a bull or heifer at Denver and be a "national champion"???? How about multiple shows, beating multiple animals under multiple judges to crown the national champion animal.
Five - Combine the two worlds of show and practicallity by making the show a combination of EPD's, defect carrier status, and physical appearance. Make it 40%, 20%, 40%.   Yes, each judge would place more priority on growth versus milk, but right now, a judge may place more emphisis on big guts versus big teats.  The judge would have a score card.





I'm pretty much in agreement with most of what you have stated above. Combining the two factions in the R A breed that are seemingly worlds apart may be a monumental challenge. There has been a definate "line in the sand" between the "show" people and the "performance" people for as many years as I have been around the breed, 30+ years. Objectively, there may not be as much difference in the two "types" of cattle as some of the people would like to believe. RCR
Dedicated to the promotion and sales of Red Angus cattle

Offline TPX

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Re: Your thoughts on the results of the National Red Angus show in Denver
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2013, 09:53:43 AM »
I guess I give the cattleman more credit than some..... cattleman can see bad feet, bad udders, and structural problems.
But they can't see unethical breeders that make up pedigrees year after year after year and get caught year after year after year and NOTHING GETS DONE.  THAT should be priority ONE.
Two - Stop trying to be black. We were seperated back in the 50's and for a reason. The reds have focused on maternal issues, growth, and longevity. Lets just say the blacks haven't.
Three - The three generation defect rule is not practical. If there is a carrier ANYWHERE in the pedigree it needs to be DNA'd for carrier status. As it has been proven, defects can be carried many generations before they get expressed.
Four - Although they claim to be a "non show breed", they cater to the big show herds by making the National show in Denver. You can show a bull or heifer at Denver and be a "national champion"???? How about multiple shows, beating multiple animals under multiple judges to crown the national champion animal.
Five - Combine the two worlds of show and practicallity by making the show a combination of EPD's, defect carrier status, and physical appearance. Make it 40%, 20%, 40%.   Yes, each judge would place more priority on growth versus milk, but right now, a judge may place more emphisis on big guts versus big teats.  The judge would have a score card.

Does the RAAA have a show bull and female of the year?  The CAA up here has a system where each province can have 2 gold shows and you get points based on where your animals place in there class, at the end of the year the points are added up and you get you show bull and female of the year.  The score card idea sounds good on paper but I would think that it would drag the show on forever and you would still have judges standing there staring at a piece of paper.  Watching the junior show in Denver was like watching paint dry.  The judge spent more time staring at a paper then looking at the animals and he liked to talk alot about EPD's.  The major shows in Canada the judges don't have epd's in front of them, all the get is the birth date and the animal in front of them.  We also seem to get more actual cattleman to judge shows and you don't need to be some graduate of a judging program or a university prof to sort the cattle. 





 

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