Opinions on Flushing Heifers?

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My recommendation is to talk to an experienced embryologist.  Phone Kathy Kreighton-Smith at Milk River Genetics in Montana.  she would likely be willing to visit with you.  she has been at it for quite some time...406-949-2505/406-357-2504

Do not flush a heifer. a lot of promising females have been ruined when flushed as a virgin heifer. calve her out, then if you really think she is "donor" quality, haul her into Geunthers in okemos

We've flushed plenty heifers with no bad results.  We only do IVF, and make sure they're at least 60 days bred.  We only do one flush as heifers, with only one exception.  Trans Ova in Chillicothe, MO does all of our flushing.  Stanton Warren would be the guy to talk to over there.

flushing (superovulation with meds ,then insemination followed by susequent uterine flush and collection of embryos ) and IVF (ultrasound guided extraction of oocytes with in vitro fertilization  perhaps with reverse sorted semen) are 2 different procedures .. both with their own risks and benefits .. try to make sure which one you are considering

Based on experience, I wouldn't flush a heifer using traditional methods.  They usually don't produce very many eggs.  Can't say about IVF but sounds interesting.

I actually just called Trans Ova earlier today to get some insight on this topic.

I'm a newbie to the whole topic but pretty much everything he said was in line w/ the info on their website:

http://www.transova.com/our-services/ivf.php

"How young can donors be aspirated?
For a number of reasons, there is often value in creating offspring from donors at as young an age as possible. While we would prefer to wait until at least 10 months of age before collecting oocytes from a donor, work can be scheduled earlier at the owner’s request as long as the donor is physically mature enough to do so. Clients must be aware of the fact that results are much more variable with very young heifers, and production will often not meet our overall system averages. Young donors should also be examined by a Trans Ova Genetics veterinarian before beginning work to determine if they are physically able to be aspirated"


$1300 for IVF if they reverse sort the semen

$750 for IVF if you use conventional or sexed frozen.

Said they average ~6 embryos w/ either option

Xbar, is that cost listed at the bottom the expense of just the procedure? I'm assuming donor owner pays for semen? Are there additional charges for housing donor at Trans Ova during the Period of IVF collection?

some questions I have with IVF are,
1) how much is to to freeze the eggs
2) whats everyones conception rates with putting in frozen ones
3) how do you set your recips up? I know you can pull them at 60-90 days, but we have always done regular embryos, and we set the recips up the same time we do donors. So i am a little confused on how you would set your recips up to carry IVF eggs.
Thanks for any replies
As to flushing heifers, I as well have heard IVF is the way to go, but like I stated I have no personal experience with IVF eggs

Sheep said:

Xbar, is that cost listed at the bottom the expense of just the procedure? I'm assuming donor owner pays for semen? Are there additional charges for housing donor at Trans Ova during the Period of IVF collection?

Click to expand...

Yes, those costs are just the procedure.

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$55 to implant

$45 to freeze

I didn't clarify on the time the donor would be there but assumed procedure was done same day?  The option that sounded best for me was to take donor to trans ova, have her aspirated (whether I take her home same day or not Idk) and then 7 days later (when the embryos are ready to implant) come back w/ my own recips back to trans ova to be implanted.  Donor owner provides semen.

As for the donor question, I am using their donors and the weaned calf program. The additional cost will be $2,000.00 per calf for a 5 month old weaned calf off of their donor picked up. While that is an additional expense, my donor is raising a calf that has never been worth as much as it is right now to go to the sale barn to offset cost, I do not have expense to setup and manage donor, and don't have to stand the complete expense of a lost pregnancy. I do not have experience of flushing heifers but currently working on a 16 year old Maine who just flushed 14 Oocytes, developed 8 embryos, and hoping for 55% - 60% conception. That was with reverse sort conventional semen so she stayed at the facility to go for another round. This was with TransOva.

I haven't had the time for a while to get on here, many of you know me for many years, and this is ALL I do for a living. IFV, as mentioned, is a totally different procedure than conventional collection of viable embryos. In IFV, the "Donor" female gets 4 injections of Fsh, instead of a full 8 shot sequence with NO prostaglandins given. The maturing follicles are then aspirated and the unfertile oozite is located, washed and exposed to your semen. After 7 days of incubation, they would be about the same age as 7 day conventional eggs.

FLUSHING is just that, you physically wash out the uterus and it's contents, including the then 7 day old embryos. On a hfr, I personally do not like doing it to them. They are small and easily damaged, not just by the manual part -- but by the risk of overstimulation and scaring of the structures. I have personally flushed over 9500 donor cows in the last 35 years people, I will do a hfr, but she had darn well better be a big one, and given a VERY small dose of drugs to get there. I guess that is my wagon ride for the day!

Merry Christmas to all !

Terry

Terry, we all appreciate the information you provide us with on this topic.

I wouldn't be afraid to ivf a bred heifer, we do strictly ivf on our donors- the cost is 7 dollars per head per day at transova here in tx and the length of time depends on when you bring her in relative to the next flush date- generally 2 weeks out in our case and we keep them there for 4 weeks (2 oocyte collections) and then bring them back home to calve- with all procedures done it costs around 1000 dollars per head per collection- that's with semen included in the price.

We had a donor we "flushed" 3 times got a total of 2 eggs out of her, her ivf collections average 13 grade 1 frozen embryos, so the cost per embryo difference is crazy on that particular cow and we love the Ivf because it keeps our donors on their consistent calving schedule and doesn't cost 30 days out the back end.

We have a heifer going to the majors this spring with full intent to ivf her next summer as a light bred.

Just another reference example from another ol cow kid

If I did have a viable CHOICE between the two, I would probably go with the IVF on hfrs instead of conventional collections. It would take a VERY high dollar, and potentially great genetic package, for me to do one of my own hfrs here. Maybe I am just a stubborn old fart, but I have had to try and work on a lot of these damaged cows and hfrs over the years. The VAST majority of damaged cows and hfrs are due to HUMAN intervention. The donors tell me what to do here, I do NOT tell them. Off topic again if I am not carefull.

Bottom line is this, if you really think your hfr is going to be a great one, why not give her the chance to get there before she is ruined? I realize the risk of death loss due to calving or accidents is there, so sometimes these hfrs ARE worth doing before anything happens to them. I have one I just bought a couple weeks ago that I can promise will be flushed this year, but she is going to calve 2-1. Otherwise, no way.