Penicillin and Nuflor
- Thread starter Cowgirl94
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I would call the vet. Sick, could mean a multitude of things, is it viral, or bacterial? If it is viral, antibiotics won't help. A vet is going to be able to help you determine what is wrong, what antibiotics you need, if you even need them, and a shot regiment to follow if you do need them.
Good luck and hope it all works out.
Good luck and hope it all works out.
CAB
Well-known member
If this is the same pig that you were worried about a week ago, I agree with VC, you need to get a vet involved asap if it's not already been too long. It sounded like your pig had a serious respiratory problem. If left untreated or let go unchecked your pig could suffer irreparable damage or what I call a lunger, ( too much lung damage to be able to perform well @ all). You need advice on treatment & correct dosages IMO.
obie105
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I would get the vet involved. I know from past experince working in a large confinement antibiotics in water seem to work very well. Amoxicillian and tetracycline seem to help with respiratory but if he has been sick for more than a week get a vet involved. Pigs seem to like to fall over and die in my experiences and the longer that something is left untreated the less likely they will be to rebound. 
OH Breeder
Well-known member
Call a vet.
I am NOT A VET......Seems to me some species of animals are more sensitive to antibiotics. Pigs in my experience aren't quiet as durable when you start mixing drugs. You do not want to mess the pig up. Certainly do not mess with NuFlor it is a strong one.
I am NOT A VET......Seems to me some species of animals are more sensitive to antibiotics. Pigs in my experience aren't quiet as durable when you start mixing drugs. You do not want to mess the pig up. Certainly do not mess with NuFlor it is a strong one.
gary89 said:
Battril is not labeled "for everything" and extra label use of Baytril is prohibited.
Cowgirl94 - you have a sick pig - you apparently don't know what is wrong with your pig - it is not getting better - if you are really interested in the welfare of this pig why are you asking a message board for advice - call your vet
gary89 said:
I am my vet and the extra label use of Baytril is illegal
The sensitivity reports are irrelevant. You may have run trials (whoever you are) but until or unless Bayer works to change the label Baytril CANNOT be used in pigs "for everything" - it has a very specific label. As a refresher I pulled this from a March 9th post - you will note that fluroquinolones (and Baytril is one) are prohibited from extra label use. IMHO if you are raising animals for food it would be prudent to know and understand the rules for drug use
The rules on drugs used for the animals we produce for food are complicated, unevenly enforced, and often not intuitively sensible. The vet med standpoint and the legal standpoint are pretty well intertwined. Drugs approved for use in cattle have been tested, withhold and withdrawals determined, and efficacy assessed. Once they meet certain requirements they are approved for the specific species tested, for the route of administration, the dose and the conditions used. So if you look at Banamine it is not approved for pain management in cattle, but it is approved for for fever, if we use it for pain management technically we need to meet all the requirements for ELDU and AMDUCA. Since it is approved (for a different use) in cattle we know that if we give it in the approved manner (which happens to be IV) then we know exactly what the meat withhold is for the drug and we will not end up with violative residues.
The bottom line is that some drugs are approved for use in cattle - for example over the counter tetracycline - if it is used exactly according to the label there is no problem HOWEVER, if the farmer decides to increase the dose above the label does that falls under the Extra Label Drug Use policy (ELDU) which (by law) required certain things.
Any drug approved for use in human or equine or canine etc that is not approved for use in cattle can only be used if the ELDU requirements are met - medical grade DMSO, acepromazine, etc are NOT approved for use in cattle and therefor can only be used (legally) if ELDU requirements are met - you will note that drugs can be used only for therapeutic purposes (animal's health is suffering or threatened) - tranquilizing a heifer in a chute to clip her does not meet ELDU requirements and is therefor technically illegal.
ELDU REQUIREMENTS FOR USE
ELDU is permitted only by or under the supervision of a veterinarian.
ELDU is allowed only for FDA approved animal and human drugs.
A valid Veterinarian/Client/Patient Relationship is a prerequisite for all ELDU.
ELDU for therapeutic purposes only (animal's health is suffering or threatened). Not drugs for production use.
Rules apply to dosage form drugs and drugs administered in water. ELDU in feed is prohibited.
ELDU is not permitted if it results in a violative food residue, or any residue which may present a risk to public health.
FDA prohibition of a specific ELDU precludes such use.
There are also record and label requirements
RECORD REQUIREMENTS
Identify the animals, either as individuals or a group.
Animal species treated.
Numbers of animals treated.
Conditions being treated.
The established name of the drug and active ingredient.
Dosage prescribed or used.
Duration of treatment.
Specified withdrawal, withholding, or discard time(s), if applicable, for meat, milk, eggs, or animal-derived food.
Keep records for 2 years.
FDA may have access to these records to estimate risk to public health.
LABEL REQUIREMENTS
Name and address of the prescribing veterinarian.
Established name of the drug.
Any specified directions for use including the class/species or identification of the animal or herd, flock, pen, lot, or other group; the dosage frequency, and route of administration; and the duration of therapy.
Any cautionary statements.
Your specified withdrawal, withholding, or discard time for meat, milk, eggs, or any other food.
There are also drugs absolutely positively forbidden to be used in food animals (ie ELDU NOT ALLOWED)
Drugs Prohibited for Extralabel Use in Food Animals (Current as of June 2003. Check for updates on the FDA Web site at www.fda.gov/cvm)
Chloramphenicol
Clenbuterol
Diethylstilbestrol (DES)
Dimetridazole
Ipronidazole
Other Nitroimidazoles
Furazolidone, Nitrofurazone, Other Nitrofurans
Sulfonamide drugs in lactating dairy cows (except approved use of sulfadimethoxine, sulfabromomethazine, and sulfaethoxypyridazine)
Fluoroquinolones
Glycopeptides (example: vancomycin)
Phenybutazone in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older
Adamantane and neuraminidase inhibitor classes of drugs that are approved for treating or preventing influenza A are prohibited therapy in chickens, turkeys, and ducks (Effective: June 20, 2006)
I know people do it - that doesn't make it right. I have heard the argument that we want to protect the kid or the public and I think it is bunk - I saw a tranquilized bull sleep through the sale - because the owner didn't want him to hurt anyone - IMHO he should have been burger.
You guys were all over Jody for his approach to youth and here you are teaching your kids to cheat and to use drugs that are illegal in food animals - we are producing food for human consumption - one would think that we would take the rules about drug use seriously - but apparently not when we might win a belt buckle.
Hope that clear it up a bit - it is a complicated, confusing conundrum and that doesn't even take into account the ethics of tranquilizing animals for show or sale
PS - don't shoot the messenger - I don't make the rules but I abide by them
http://www.avma.org/reference/amduca/amduca1.asp
showsteerdlux
Well-known member
Agreed on Baytril. However, it would be in your best interest to get a vet to look at the pig, or at least someone who has been around awhile and knows what to look for. Another option is Excede. Don't see Nuflor being used that often on the pig end of things.gary89 said:
Baytril is certainly not illegal to use in food producing animals. It can be purchased thru a DVM. If the vet does not want to use that he/she could recommend something else, Comparing the use of a legal antibiotic to cure a sick animal to the use of clenbuterol is quite a stretch to say the least. I did not read one response in this thread that was even close to teaching a kid to cheat. All of the responses including mine recommended calling the vet. The vets I know would undoubtedly recommend Baytril if a respiratory issue was at hand and you wanted a broad spectrum of coverage. My experience has been very positive in achieving recovery of our pigs. Our pigs are marketed under a USDA certified program and are subject to external audits before marketing. If the vet chooses a different course of treatment so be it, but no one was talking about the use of illegal drugs.
hamburgman
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gary89 you take that argument up with the FDA, what they teach us in school "Don't use Baytril for anything besides respiratory disease in pigs without being prepared to lose your liscense." now that being said we have had speakers come in and tell us of real life examples where they used Baytril for non-respiratory issues in swine, but said it was a one time only deal and they had gone through multiple steps to make sure it was ok. Also anyone's "pet" pygmy goat, pot bellied pig, steer or any animal whose species being is to provide food for people is considered a food animal. So that list that DL posted applies to all those acreage animals that aren't ever going to be slaughtered, just a little fyi in case anyone was wondering.
gary89 said:
You clearly are misinformed and you did not read the post above - what is it about this statement you do not understand???
[size=10pt]Drugs Prohibited for Extralabel Use in Food Animals(Current as of June 2003.
Check for updates on the FDA Web site at www.fda.gov/cvm)
Fluoroquinolones[/size]
Baytril is labeled for use for respiratory disease in pigs it is not labeled "for everything" - use of Baytril in the pig for anything other than resp disease is ILLEGAL. The reason for this is because the fluoroquinolones are important in human medicine
like I said in the previous post the information was copied from a previous post on extra label drug use, in this case acepromazine, it becomes pretty ponderous to have to repeat this information ad nauseum because people don't know or don't care about the rules - I don't make them - if you don't like it talk to the FDA
and BTW the FDA considers the extra label use of all of the prohibited compounds exactly the same - so don't pull the treating a sick pig for "everything" is different that giving a steer clenbuterol - in the eyes of the FDA they are the same
For your benefit again (extra label drug use includes using a drug for anything that is NOT on the label - a condition, by a route, dose, frequency etc)
Drugs Prohibited for Extralabel Use in Food Animals (Current as of June 2003. Check for updates on the FDA Web site at www.fda.gov/cvm)
Chloramphenicol
Clenbuterol
Diethylstilbestrol (DES)
Dimetridazole
Ipronidazole
Other Nitroimidazoles
Furazolidone, Nitrofurazone, Other Nitrofurans
Sulfonamide drugs in lactating dairy cows (except approved use of sulfadimethoxine, sulfabromomethazine, and sulfaethoxypyridazine)
Fluoroquinolones
Glycopeptides (example: vancomycin)
Phenybutazone in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older
Adamantane and neuraminidase inhibitor classes of drugs that are approved for treating or preventing influenza A are prohibited therapy in chickens, turkeys, and ducks
CAB
Well-known member
Cowgirl94, how is your pig getting along by now. You sure have gotten allot of opinions on here as what everyone thinks. What have you decided would be the best coarse of action to get your pig back on the road to a healthy recovery? Hope that your pig is much better.
hamburgman
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I might be misreading something, or wrote something incorrectly previously (my posts are horrible I will admit when it comes to grammar and missing words, I blame it on instant chats, lol), but I believe I was making the statement that outside of respiratory issues for swine baytril is and ELDU.
hamburgman said:
hamburgman - that is exactly correct - (I don't hink your posts are horrible
when gary89 stated that Baytril was "very effective against most everything" most everything is not on the label and ELDU of Baytril is illegal. gary89 said:
If Baytril is used according to the species label with the appropriate dose, route and withhold then it is not illegal. For swine the label is respiratory disease ONLY. ELDU of Baytril is illegal.
