Possible donor cow

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shortybreeder

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I'm thinking about flushing my cow, she's an April 2010 cow sired by Homedale Blizzard 820 out of an HF Rimpro cow. She's still as sound as a cat, holds her condition better than any other cow in the herd, and she consistently produces the best calf of the group while rebreeding quickly. Would you flush her? If so, which sire(s) would you use? The goal is to produce nice purebred replacement females because she has always given us bull calves and I'd hate to lose this line. She's given us 3 pretty nice calves out of Homedale Creole 135, but I'm curious about other options?
 

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mark tenenbaum

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NBS Lowrider for a lot of reasons and the calves shouldnt be that big-or of the Red Reward sons -they will add some thickness and depth of body-REWARDS will continue low BWS with great  epds-and JMO-will really work on that type of pedigree-Steve French has semen on Low Rider and a very good Reward called final four. Bollums cattle can be bred somewhat similar-thats what they are doing-and it really seems to work. O0
 

mbigelow

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Kane captain would be great his sire was just picked up by select sires and is great for low bw and high milk/ maternal. On the bottom side,red reward out of older aegeter breeding. function is bred in! I think I will be using the bull come next fall on a few cows.
 

shortybreeder

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I don't know that I want to get that close to Maine. I do like the look of the red rewards/red demands, but I've heard some people having issues getting them bred to calve at 2 without extra feed. How about just using JSF Goldenrod rather than KANE Captain? Low Rider looks interesting, and I do like the looks of his calves. Does anyone have experience with Low Rider daughters as cows?
 

Medium Rare

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If line breeding to a 9590/Blizzard combo via 135 is working well, why not dip back into those same lines?

Unless the bw scares you, TM Gus would bring 80c back into the picture. Is 9590 semen available?
 

mbigelow

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Shortybreeder,  I have some hesitation with the red rewards so, goldenrod would be a good possibility.  Two other bulls may be kaper 4508 and muridale robert ( if he's been collected?).
 

RyanChandler

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The low rider calves I saw at WHR were very odd looking animals. More similar in their design to sheep than functional beef cattle.  I also have no interest in any of the 'Red (fill in the blank).'  If functional beef cattle are your forte, JSF Goldenrod is a fine bull. I bought a Goldenrod daughter from SBR in the Durham nation sale sale a cpl years ago and she has turned out to be a really nice cow.  Perhaps more milk than what I need but a good solid producer nonetheless.  Robert 35U would be another option that should really add some capacity as well.
 

oakview

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Low Riders look like sheep?  Please elaborate.  Were they too short coupled, small framed, too large framed, too round muscled, lacked any muscle?  How would you fix them to make them more "functional?"  Or were they just too "show type?"  We had a heifer many years ago my twin grandsons called "sheep-cow."  It was not because she looked like a sheep.  They were not quite 2 years old and didn't know cattle could be white. 
 

shortybreeder

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I can get ahold of 9590 semen, do you guys think he is better than 135? 135 has the better EPD's, but his accuracies are a crap-shoot. Muridale Robert 35U doesn't have any progeny in the US books, and I found him in the Canadian registry but I can't figure out how to search for his progeny. TM Gus is an interesting choice. What about just using 80C himself because it looks like TM Gus's BW issue comes from his dam.
 

RyanChandler

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80C is going to reduce body capacity and add leg,, the opposite of what I would suggest for your cow.

oakview said:
Low Riders look like sheep?  Please elaborate.  Were they too short coupled, small framed, too large framed, too round muscled, lacked any muscle?  How would you fix them to make them more "functional?"  Or were they just too "show type?"  We had a heifer many years ago my twin grandsons called "sheep-cow."  It was not because she looked like a sheep.  They were not quite 2 years old and didn't know cattle could be white. 

I did not say all low riders look like sheep. I said the skeletal design of the ones I saw did.  To elaborate, if they were to walk behind a sheet,, their silhouette would be more similar to the 2nd picture I've attached than to the 3rd.
 

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shortyjock89

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I agree with Ryan on 80C big time. The females we have with his influence are okay, but he took a lot of body out of them and our cow herd are fairly uniformly big bodied cattle. I will say he improved udders, but all of the cows we have with him up close in pedigrees are destined to either be recips or culls.

I think that there are quite a few bulls from JSF that could work for you now that he's got away from JPJ a bit.
 

Duncraggan

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Look at bulls from programmes with depth to their pedigrees, like Kaper, Y Lazy Y, Haumont and Waukaru, amongst others in the US, and a long list from Canada.
You know what you will get!
It looks like the cow could do with a bit of hindquarter, in my opinion, from the picture.
 

mark tenenbaum

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mbigelow said:
Kane captain would be great his sire was just picked up by select sires and is great for low bw and high milk/ maternal. On the bottom side,red reward out of older aegeter breeding. function is bred in! I think I will be using the bull come next fall on a few cows./// Id like to see some of the calves-Ive heard conflicting opinions-but Im all in on his pedigree. I dont see that cow being thick enough or have the look to flush without something very stout in the background-and the captain bull has alot of good older blood thick ones back there-along with the reds-and if I can remember right some Keith Lauer (Red Demands dam) which have to be some of the most coveted cattle to change both Sullivans and Jungles operations. The Real World CE on him is going to certainely be better than some of the Canadian bulls-AND a few of the Waukaru cattle.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Duncraggan said:
Look at bulls from programmes with depth to their pedigrees, like Kaper, Y Lazy Y, Haumont and Waukaru, amongst others in the US, and a long list from Canada.
You know what you will get!
It looks like the cow could do with a bit of hindquarter, in my opinion, from the picture./// And thats WHAT YOU WONT GET GET out of some of the above O0
 

shortyjock89

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Yeah I'd be surprised if any Y lazy Y or Waukaru bulls added any rear quarter. I've also got it on good confidence that Dover wouldn't do much for you in terms of body. But those cows will work hard and do their best every year.

I'd probably look into using some 034 or something with Eagle 148 in their pedigree too.
 

oakview

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So the Low Riders lack depth, volume, and substance in your opinion?  There's plenty of sheep out there that resemble the beef caricature more than the extreme show lamb depicted.  Huge differences at each end of the spectrum in every species. 

If your goal is what you stated, to produce a group of replacement females, then I wouldn't worry too much about muscle.  I'm reading into your post that you like your cow and want several more like her.  If you like the Creole 135 calves, can you not reverse sort semen to increase odds of getting females in a flush?  It seems as though I've heard a few people talking about this.  Perhaps keeping a son of him out of this cow would be the easiest, most convenient way to spread her influence.  The Eagle 148's have been about as consistent for adding muscle through the generations as any line I've seen.
 

shortybreeder

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oakview said:
If your goal is what you stated, to produce a group of replacement females, then I wouldn't worry too much about muscle.  I'm reading into your post that you like your cow and want several more like her.  If you like the Creole 135 calves, can you not reverse sort semen to increase odds of getting females in a flush?  It seems as though I've heard a few people talking about this.  Perhaps keeping a son of him out of this cow would be the easiest, most convenient way to spread her influence.  The Eagle 148's have been about as consistent for adding muscle through the generations as any line I've seen.
I have thought about using her current 135 son that I am raising via AI to spread her influence, but I've only got 4 registered cows right now. One of them is a 135, and the other is this cow, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go through the work of getting him collected and tested to just use him on 2 cows. I do however have about a dozen commercial recips, which is why I am looking at flushing as a way to propagate more of her genetics. I know my cattle need more muscle, but maybe that's something I can look at adding in the next generation? My focus here is to get a strong maternal base herd that will be low input, high fertility cows with mating flexibility. I'll post a pic of a potential sire in the next post, you guys can tell me what you think. He's got Mr Gus 80C 3 generations back, and The Grove Kookaburra 2 generations back.
 

shortybreeder

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Thoughts on the phenotype? Mostly Australian blood with a little Canadian/American influence from Gus and Cruickshank.
 

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mark tenenbaum

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Hes got the Canadian easy fleshing look which is what that cow needs jmo-do his sire or dam go back to the leader 21st  Kinnabar Leader,Oakwood whatever? etc old blood? Hes got more butt than alot of the bulls I see made like him-as long as the bws are within reason hes definitely thicker than some of the ones mentioned. There are a couple straws for sale (sp classified) on the rare Muridale Buster 14K light roan bull-very little left on him O0
 

shortybreeder

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Mark--way back in his pedigree I did find Deerpark Leader 13th, but that's the only bit of leader I found. Muridale Buster looks interesting. Does anyone have experience with his daughters?
 
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