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Offline Lorcain Farms

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Red or Black Angus?
« on: September 30, 2008, 10:19:06 AM »
I know everyone has their personal preference, but I was just curious whether there is a huge difference between red Angus and black Angus, or whether its just stereotypes.  Like, are there any big differences in size, conformation, temperament, finishing ability and hair coats? Or is the only difference between red and black Angus just their coloring? I'm just wondering because I'm thinking about starting a little show string, and I don't know whether to go into the black Angus, or the reds. Any opinions or personally experiences would be great, I'd love to know what people have, and what they think of both.

Offline Alexjung13

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 11:21:10 AM »
Hey my family raises redangus and we have a sale coming up on the 11th. There are some difference. But their dispositoin and body structure is about the same. The differece is that Blacks grow hair easier than reds. don't ask me why but i have found it hard to grow hair on my red angus cattle. but they still look really good.

Offline TJ

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 11:28:59 AM »
I can't see much advantage of one over the other, it's mostly about personal preference.  

Red SUPPOSEDLY can handle the heat better & that may be the case, but... my Red Angus cows (and they grew up  a couple hundred miles south of here) live under the shade trees just as much as my black Lowlines.  And going one step further, our black Tarentaise spend a lot less time under the trees than the Red Angus.  I've also noticed no difference between black & red Tarentaise tolerating heat.  Although there may indeed be a difference, I can't see much difference.  

Somebody once mentioned that red cattle have less flies on them than black cattle... well, that's simply not the case.  

I can tell you that the people who want red will only buy red, but for every 1 person like that, there are at least 5 -10 times more people who want only black cattle.

From the outside looking in... I do think that the Red Angus were selected a little more for the commercial person & the black Angus were selected a little more for "show ring" fads.  

I managed a herd for a breeder who bought some EXPENSIVE show winning Red Angus females back in the 1990's & I have some Red Angus cows of my own right now.  But, I've seen nothing so far that has caused me to become a big Red Angus fan.  I'm also not a big Black Angus fan, although I do like the Ohlde genetics & I really like the Lowline Angus, but they are different types than the typical "Americanized" Angus.  

I raise both 100% Angus (reds & blacks) & I raise composites.  I can tell you with 100% honesty that the very best animals are the composites.   ;)        


RE temperment, confirmation, size, finishing ability, and hair coat... that varies a lot from individual to individual within a breed.  Since I know Lowline Cattle, I'll use them as an example...

Doc Holliday sires calves with lots of hair & fuzzy ears, but Tigers Eye sires calves that are typically much slicker.  Doc Holliday sires really docile calves, but I am hearing that Quartermaster makes some of his offspring higher strung.  Doc Holliday is almost 49 inches, but Quartermaster is only 39 inches.  Bluey has an incredible marbling score of 80 something on the MMI test, but a lot of high marbling Angus bulls are significantly lower.  So, as you can see, it's more about the individuals than it is about the breed.  

I would guess that you can find exactly what you are looking for in Red or Black, Big or Small, all you will need to do is spend some time looking & then be ready to open your check book when you find what you want.

All the above is just my opinion, based on my own personal experience.   I by no means know all the answers & I can be & I have been wrong from time to time.  However, I sincerely hope that I've been helpful.

TJ    
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Offline Olson Family Shorthorns

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 12:00:15 PM »
There are really good and really bad critters in both.  I like the Red more because they haven't chased fads as much as the Blacks, and I think maybe the Reds cross better with my breed, Shorthorns.  That being said a good calf is a good calf is a good calf no matter what breed, color, etc.
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Offline Jeff_Schroeder

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 01:22:44 PM »
Regarding your specific situation, it will likely cost a lot less to establish a competitive Red Angus show string than an Angus show string.

There is significantly less blue blood in the reds.

Offline simtal

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 02:30:47 PM »
MARC data would show that Red Angus marble a little better than Black.  Few differences on growth, production, etc..
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Offline TJ

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 03:31:08 PM »
Regarding your specific situation, it will likely cost a lot less to establish a competitive Red Angus show string than an Angus show string.

There is significantly less blue blood in the reds.

I agree 100% that you can become a big player in the Red Angus for less money & less time than it would take to become a big player in the Angus breed. 
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Offline TJ

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 03:45:39 PM »
There are really good and really bad critters in both.  I like the Red more because they haven't chased fads as much as the Blacks, and I think maybe the Reds cross better with my breed, Shorthorns.  That being said a good calf is a good calf is a good calf no matter what breed, color, etc.

Really good post & I agree.  The breeds do have some differences, but I think it's more an individual thing, IMHO.  Ohlde Angus, New Zealand Angus, and Lowline Angus are all quite different than your typical Americanized Angus that you see in a show ring, even though all are supposed to be 100% Angus.   The typical Americanized Angus are the ones that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, but the others I think will work in lots of situations.  I also don't think that the Red Angus breed as a whole is as good as Ohlde Angus, New Zealand Angus and/or Lowline Angus either, but I do think that the Red Angus breed as a whole is better than your typical Americanized Angus, if that makes any sense.   
http://www.kylowline.com

Romans 10:9-10... "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Offline Lorcain Farms

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 03:47:33 PM »
Okay, whats better? To be a bigger player in the Red Angus industry for less money, or is it better to be in the middle of the pack with the Angus but spend about the same amount?

Offline SD

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 03:56:28 PM »
I think LG you are missing the bigger question. Which is, what type of cattle do you want to produce? Then can you do that better (more profitable) in which breed? There have been many who try to make a splash and fail mainly because the end up chasing the latest trends. And anyone can do that.

JMHO
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Offline Lorcain Farms

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 04:04:00 PM »
I think LG you are missing the bigger question. Which is, what type of cattle do you want to produce? Then can you do that better (more profitable) in which breed? There have been many who try to make a splash and fail mainly because the end up chasing the latest trends. And anyone can do that.

JMHO
 <alien>

I want to produce easy calvers, that can be productive, and produce nice F1 cross calves for feeders. We already have a few commercial angus, and I have not had one problem with any of them yet. Thats why I want to get into a little show string of angus, they are nice easy keeping cows, and proven in my mind.

Offline Rocky Hill

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 04:13:18 PM »
I read somewhere that the average red angus has better marbling than the average black angus but the average black angus has more meat on it than the average red angus. They're basically the same thing though.

I have a dandy red angus cow right now. Every calf she has looks awesome. I never had any full black angus cows but we bottle fed some black angus calves and they're all turned out really short and small so we didn't keep any of the heifers as cows.

Offline SD

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 04:15:10 PM »
Ok I think you have a great start. What I might suggest is that the F1 crosses is where you will make you impact.

Short term: your choice is basically about color.

We run both. I know doesn't help you but here is my point. If the cross is your target then some times your registration papers won't be as important. There are good buys in both breeds. So what if your colors get mixed up. A good cow or bull is the out come.

Long term: You might look at what you will cross to and show some of them as well. And eventually show some of your F1's too.

Just food for thought.
 <alien>


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Offline Longway Ranch - SK, Canada

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 05:29:02 PM »
It seems harder (and more expensive) to find GOOD RA cattle, but when you do, they are just that.....GOOD.  Otherwise, simply a color choice...I would rather be a strong member of a small pack, that a low rider in a huge one.  RA will cross better with justabout any breed, you wont get any rat tails.  They do marble better as well.  Like others said though, its not a popularity contest, but a production contest.  What will give you more money and less headaches?  What will bring more customers to your yard?
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Offline SD

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Re: Red or Black Angus?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2008, 06:26:25 PM »
Also do some studying of the two different show rings for the breeds. If you go to a RA only show you will have EPD's factored in. Where the AAA will have Pedigrees influencing (not officially but any one will tell you) the judging.

And if you go RA you will have to subscribe to total herd reporting (THR) which is a pain but well worth it when you deal with the commercial producers.
Tact and Political Correctness were developed by those who lack the Testicular Fortitude to say what they really mean.

 

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