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Offline justintime

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Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« on: May 10, 2015, 10:32:40 AM »
Last week I decided to sell a couple of heifer calves born from our late fall calving cows. One was a red neck roan born on November 5th and the other was an even roan born on December 8th. I had just weaned my fall calves and with it being on the dry side and possibly too many heifers to grass where they would not be close to a bull, I made the decision to sell off the two youngest heifers. They sold together, and averaged 507 lbs. They sold for $3.1750/ lb for an average return of $1609/ head. I looked at the market report for that sale day, and this was reported to be the high price for heifers weighing 500-600 lbs.  It certainly seems that the cattle buyers here are getting over the "black is best" mindset. I certainly hope someday this will be common place and cattle will be judged by their quality rather than just their color!
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2015, 11:59:38 AM »
Seems the better it gets up there-the worse it gets in alot of areas down here. And I agree,the quality of the cattle have alot to do with it-but down here-it doesnt matter how good they are,thats if the buyers could tell the differance.So: noone in thier right mind would send a good purebred hiefer to the sale barn at least in my area. O0

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2015, 01:05:49 PM »
Really I try, honestly!!

I try to understand as a country so called "modern" on cattle business as US have on mind that black coat will affect meat quality - to name one character only - same that mentioned animal is 4 generations full continental blood.

Is hardy to me here in deep southern world accept that people looks for coat against quality.....merchandising is really a strong weapon!

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2015, 03:18:27 PM »
This 'discounting' deal really drives me mad.

Down here, some indigenous breeds are discounted but we generally get paid according to quality, suitable size/weight and proximity to feedlot.

The CAB black hide deal when there seems to sometimes not be any angus blood in their veins astounds me! To qualify as angus here you have to be in possession of a registered angus bull or have AI'd to a registered angus bull.

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 09:18:02 PM »
Just like everything else in America. Nothing is as it seems. Always an agenda behind things. Money talks and the rest get humbled. Fit in or be an outsider. I always wonder if the buyers of cattle are too stupid to be able to know a good animal other than its hide color.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 01:10:46 PM »
Just like everything else in America. Nothing is as it seems. Always an agenda behind things. Money talks and the rest get humbled. Fit in or be an outsider. I always wonder if the buyers of cattle are too stupid to be able to know a good animal other than its hide color./// MY answer to that-is YES!
O0

Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 01:14:59 AM »
What I found strange, I sold a group of weaning calves. One red, one black and one smoke. My smoke went for a premium and the black followed with the red calf at the bottom off by few cents. But on the hook my reds are out performing in hanging. My meat customers want more "what ever that last one was", I just don't have the herd size to meet the demand.
Hide to me is irrevlant unless your making furniture. My best dressed heifer was clubby bred (walks alone)out of shorthorn cow. Best dressed steer was purebred out of half show genetics half performance. That is the balance for our little operation we seek. make a few kids happy to go home with a heifer that will go out and perform. With the help of a few of good people on here we have been able to infuse some great stuff.
Congrats up north! We are just a little slower south of border. i think every breed has something to bring to the table. Its unfortunate the general consumer is snowed with the "CAB" label. So many times, I have asked waiters or waitress what does that mean. The anwsers are hiliarious.
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Offline Lucky_P

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 07:43:59 AM »
No roans here, but getting quite a few reds, as we've been using Shorthorn and a few hetero-black Sim sires over ANxSimAngus cows.
Sold a group a couple of weeks back; mostly black steers, with two reds in the group; essentially 7/8 sibs...all were essentially the same genetic makeup for 3-4(or more) generations back.  The reds were equal to any of the blacks...but sold 10 cents down. 
Docked because they can; but it's still BS.

Offline aj

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 08:57:05 AM »
I think the only way you change the deal is to start selling pens of red and roans. Because here in Kansas anyway. The beef industry is the feedlots. They have their cattle buyers that are given instructions. They don't wanna be fair or unfair. They want consistencies and they want pens that look alike. Now there are some weird little clicks that go on in salebarns. Seemed like to me that one buyer will look for bargins.......one calf at a time. The other buyer wants a pen or a half a pen. I think sometimes the salebarn operator will kinda sort to these two enities without making it personal. I think its just a fact of business.
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Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 11:30:28 AM »
They don't wanna be fair or unfair. They want consistencies and they want pens that look alike.

Exactly.  Of course I don't like the discount my red or roans receive but I've always accepted the fact as it's a pretty reasonable explanation as to why.  I've never interpreted it as a knock to the intrinsic value of my calves.   It's just that they're -different- whether better or worse is a non factor.    Buyers want consistency and most importantly, predictability.  Knowing that cattle that look similarly perform similarly, buyers have an incentive to hedge the risk of buying source-unknown cattle and do so by setting up phenotypical parameters in an attempt to minimize outlier performance, ie minimize days on feed / finish weight / cover variances.   I don't like the outcome, but in terms of being able to accurately project performance, I can see why feeders are more inclined to put their money on similar (appearing)pens of cattle as opposed to gambling on the unknown.

Outlets like the Shorthorn Assn's great state feedout is a practical alternative for those of us the breed and I hope we see more of this.  I think additional measures have to be taken by the Association to organize and facilitate an affordable and efficient means of bringing together SH cattle from across the country.  Not only would this provide producers with a more profitable option for their cattle, but it would assist in attaining what the SH breed needs most, performance documentation!

There is a quote by an AAA executive that says something to the effect of "Angus cattle aren't better because they're Angus or because they're black, they're better because of the information behind them."  And in terms of predictability, the value of their performance documentation is hard to dispute.  Angus cattle are the most documented breed of beef cattle there is and the AAA has done a tremendous job of decreasing the level of risk assumed by producers by making this information available.

For Shorthorns to rival the current position of the Angus breed will take documentation,, and lots of it!   I'm a big proponent of our new WHR program, I think it's a huge step in the right direction.  That being said, we need more. We need kill data.  Buyers want to know once they retain possession of your cattle, how will they perform.  Margins are tight and feeders are less willing to gamble.   We need to minimize the risk of incorporating Shorthorn genetics and the only way we're going to accomplish this is with a preponderance of documentation substantiating our claims. Talk is cheap- we need cold. hard. facts.

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: Roan Shorthorns being discounted??
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 12:17:09 PM »
I'm not sure I can even reply to the topic at hand without it turning into a rant directed toward the association. I can only hope the changes that are, and are about to happen, make it easier for the beef industry to realize the breed's actual potential.

Has anyone seen the data below be presented to potential breeders via any means the Association has available to them?


 

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