Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: LKFSimme on January 08, 2018, 07:13:45 PM

Title: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: LKFSimme on January 08, 2018, 07:13:45 PM
I have 2 shorthorn cows that I will be breeding in a few months.  I'm looking for a clean, maternal, sound bull that will add a bit of depth.  Will Yesterday do this for me?  I'm also thinking of Gilman's Envied.  Thoughts on these two?  Other suggestions of bulls that are easily available? 
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Dale on January 08, 2018, 07:38:20 PM
Why not call up Gilman's and ask them?  They are very impressive people and tell it like it is.  They own Saskvalley Alliance and have also used Yesterday.  I saw Envied running with cows last summer, and he and his calves looked really good. 
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Dale on January 08, 2018, 07:39:38 PM
JSF Gauge will also add depth.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 08, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
I agree with Dale but I havent seen the cattle-I have heard Yesterday although very moderate is NOT the calving ease deal consistently-North Face is another one to look at along with the Gilman bull -I also like some others for various reasons depends upon how the cows are bred MY two favorite bulls right now are-little Cedar Final Four, and Mitches Eagle Eye-both are proven CE-very stout, thick, and deep- have really good cattle all the way back-and are WAY more eye appealing than straight Canadian-although Final Four goes back to an Alta Cedar Llilian-one of the all time really good female lines from up North O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Coach on January 09, 2018, 11:16:13 AM
Thanks for mentioning Mitch's Eagle Eye here!

We purchased him a few years ago at the Iowa Royal Sale.  Just loved his look.  The scan data & performance really sealed the deal for us.  To date, all of our calves have been polled and born unassisted.  That being said, we are using him on cows rather than heifers.  We do have some Salute daughters and Bloodstone daughters  -  average birth weights in our cold weather has been about 90 lbs.  We are very excited to see what he will add to our Master Prince daughters as the BW and CE numbers there are very good . . . to the point that we were looking for a bit more power.

A few who came to look at calves last fall noticed the Eagle Eyes had more muscle.  We will be collecting scan data on progeny this spring.

We are so committed to Eagle Eye that we have collected sexed semen so that we can flush & A.I. a few of our favorite cows while he's in pasture with another group.  We're excited about adding these genetics to our cow herd. 

  ;)   Shameless plug . . . Eagle Eye available from Cattle Visions! 
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 09, 2018, 11:28:37 AM
Got any calf pics in the field? Like to see him or a couple of them from behind O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: wiseguy on January 09, 2018, 02:47:11 PM
We used Yesterday the first year he was available and have coming 3 year old cows, bred heifers, and yearling cattle all sired by him. We have been very pleased with the results, but I can confidently say he will not add depth. He will add muscle, marbling, and performance. I will attach a picture of twin yesterday daughters that will calve shortly to Saskvalley Task Force ( weaning photo).
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: LKFSimme on January 09, 2018, 06:40:35 PM
Thank you for the info.  I'll take a look at Eagle Eye (got any pics to share?)as well and I will also contact Gilmans.  I'm not necessarily looking for CE...more bulls that make good cows while also be sound and functional.  (clapping)
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 09, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
Here he is and a caf or 2 - Theres  one on  Bollums sale (coach who owns him- lot 1 -Red White Roan Sale to your left above cattle visions  in the ads ) but I think alot of them would be deeper-shes got a butt tho Id say from him. O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 10, 2018, 11:13:05 AM
Heres Final 4 and one of a handfull of really good daughters-She is out of a 1st calf heifer- also won her division at Louisville and Champ at the recent Michigan show and shes young yet-A bull should do all the functional things you mentioned above ESPECIALLY CALVING EASE  AND produce marketable progeny-These 2 do all that:and they go back to very good functional cattle both sides and have reliable EPDS due to their respective backgrounds O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: -XBAR- on January 10, 2018, 12:37:23 PM
Why are these Maine cross show bulls being suggesting when the OP is asking about production bloodlines to make good momma cows?

You canít go wrong with Envied. A genuine cow maker pedigree and the functional phenotype to back it up.  His daughters have been standouts in every sale Iíve seen them in.


Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 10, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
In the first place neither one of these bulls were showed and have been out breeding cows-Final Four is also owned by a Texas outfit-so he may have been back and forth.Look at the rest of the pedigrees on the cows sides-and then at  DMCC LTD Edition et al.Ive seen 3-4 generations of Eagle Eyes dam-grandam etc in person and other members out of different sires-Dan Mitchell has had good functional cattle for 30 years that I know of:so have Fischers who produced his sire.Final Fours grandam dam is as good a Canadian bred cow as there is. And the one heifer pictured is a first calf-the best of the first ones Ive seen so far was a very young one on Schombergs recent sale-and his cattle are run commercially and documented. DMCC LTD Edition  has sired a huge number of good cows and EZ calving genetics for over 20 years and literally helped bring the breed back from near commercial oblivian -Today alot of the functional  Maines are as good as any breed out there-with real numbers to substantiate it.And as this site generally suggests and is geared towards-you can also show these cattle which would certainly open up some avenues of income to many breeders-even for county fair deals. O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Doc on January 10, 2018, 04:27:39 PM
In the first place neither one of these bulls were showed and have been out breeding cows-Final Four is also owned by a Texas outfit-so he may have been back and forth.Look at the rest of the pedigrees on the cows sides-and then at  DMCC LTD Edition et al.Ive seen 3-4 generations of Eagle Eyes dam-grandam etc in person and other members out of different sires-Dan Mitchell has had good functional cattle for 30 years that I know of:so have Fischers who produced his sire.Final Fours grandam dam is as good a Canadian bred cow as there is. And the one heifer pictured is a first calf-the best of the first ones Ive seen so far was a very young one on Schombergs recent sale-and his cattle are run commercially and documented. DMCC LTD Edition  has sired a huge number of good cows and EZ calving genetics for over 20 years and literally helped bring the breed back from near commercial oblivian -Today alot of the functional  Maines are as good as any breed out there-with real numbers to substantiate it.And as this site generally suggests and is geared towards-you can also show these cattle which would certainly open up some avenues of income to many breeders-even for county fair deals. O0

Amen !!
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: -XBAR- on January 10, 2018, 08:57:07 PM

In the first place neither one of these bulls were showed and have been out breeding cows-Final Four is also owned by a Texas outfit-so he may have been back and forth.Look at the rest of the pedigrees on the cows sides-and then at  DMCC LTD Edition et al.Ive seen 3-4 generations of Eagle Eyes dam-grandam etc in person and other members out of different sires-Dan Mitchell has had good functional cattle for 30 years that I know of:so have Fischers who produced his sire.Final Fours grandam dam is as good a Canadian bred cow as there is. And the one heifer pictured is a first calf-the best of the first ones Ive seen so far was a very young one on Schombergs recent sale-and his cattle are run commercially and documented. DMCC LTD Edition  has sired a huge number of good cows and EZ calving genetics for over 20 years and literally helped bring the breed back from near commercial oblivian -Today alot of the functional  Maines are as good as any breed out there-with real numbers to substantiate it.And as this site generally suggests and is geared towards-you can also show these cattle which would certainly open up some avenues of income to many breeders-even for county fair deals. O0


* Maine cross show bloodlines, not (show) bulls, may have been better wordage.  I think if youíll look to the breeding and breeders of the two initial bulls in question, youíll see none of these folks are using the TYPE of bull you suggest.  It would stand to reason thatís thereís good REASON why this is the case.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 11, 2018, 06:02:45 AM
The progeny and numbers speak for any bulls. I know all of the people involved on both sides of the pedigrees including Tim loudoun who came up with Red Rewards sire. The only one I dont know is John Sullivan. But the Rockdale Margie dam to  Red Reward comes out of is a Goldxmargie-that aint popular show breeding. In fact I would guess you have Gold in your cattle-and the ones youy used that are close to Enticer have nearly as much maine in them as Eagle eye. I had 30 head of cattle with Mark Mueller-the breeder of LTD Edition-and have hung out over there since 1991. Ive seen the Hartman Countess cows. Hartman and my partner Lawrence Grathwohl were very good friends and I went along and looked as far back as the early 90s.-Deertrail Countess (who I later owned) was a main influence -maybe that's where the Countess name came from. -Does the realization that there is a great big world of usefull  cattle outside your "barn" make you uncomfortable? Like multi tasking? The bovine world is very fluid.Cognitive dissonance over different types and assuming their roles and or direction without a closeup basis  will do nothing but narrow things-maybe your cattle-certainly  your perceptions.  O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR on January 11, 2018, 05:25:50 PM
Two months ago I inspected for registration some calves.
The best one I saw were by Yesterday!
A good surprise as I was saw some a year later with good shape as well, and this year Yesterday show some good consistence on progeny.
The heifer were great....wide loin and meat until hook....wide back side too....a very good head, very feminine. All with a wonderful roan coat.
Yesterday is being a good option here.
Sorry, but the other bull is unknown to me, so cann't give my opinion.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mbigelow on January 11, 2018, 10:46:59 PM
Some other bulls to consider would be crooked post stockman, muridale robert, diamond proficy, drc 101vm,  saskvalley imperative and if wanting some show look danny d.  I like mark's suggestions if those genetics suit your needs especially final four.  I believe yesterday has good calving ease but higher bw than anticipated when mated to certain genetics.  If mating him to cows you should have no issues.  If wanting another roan option Jake's sultan of jazz
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 12, 2018, 07:03:00 PM
Some other bulls to consider would be crooked post stockman, muridale robert, diamond proficy, drc 101vm,  saskvalley imperative and if wanting some show look danny d.  I like mark's suggestions if those genetics suit your needs especially final four.  I believe yesterday has good calving ease but higher bw than anticipated when mated to certain genetics.  If mating him to cows you should have no issues.  If wanting another roan option Jake's sultan of jazz/// I like Sultan .Tabasco, and Bollums Jazz bull-all are clean as well-If you get one near white-two of them are solid red-ALL are way proven and by pedigree alone would really work with the ones I suggested-or ANY of the Canadian Breds Jazz X Canadian just works Dont know how it would work with DRC-but hed sure work on daughters of the above Ditto with the Crooked post cattle-they are mainly Waukaru-which I think cross THE BEST with something with a little maine or what have you-nobody has done it lately-so who knows O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Duncraggan on January 13, 2018, 07:22:30 AM
I have used three of the bulls mentioned, namely Yesterday, Gauge and Stockman.
Yesterday and Gauge were both very impressive, and I have progeny of the Gauge progeny as well. I initially brought in 25-30 doses of each, and in both cases brought in another tranche of 25-30 doses.
Gauge came in first and has really impressed with low BW, good WW, YW and 18mnth weights. I used two sons and have had some of his heifers calve to Yesterday and other bulls. The calves were mostly bulls. They flesh well and have been fertile. I still have 30 doses in my tank.
I only join to calve at 30- or 36mnths due to my extensive conditions. I join at >750lbs, so conditions determine when I join, not age.
Yesterday mostly produced heifers! The oldest will be joined this year. We used him mostly on heifers and the calves came easily and have grown well! The progeny are wide over the hips and look very promising! I still have 39 doses in my tank.
Stockman is my latest acquisition, I took the semen marketing rights and 400 doses. I used 55 doses in 2017, cows and heifers, so am expecting a number of progeny this year, first due about 20 February! If my progeny looks as good as the progeny at Crooked Post I will be happy!
ASA Spring 2018 EPD's look great on all these bulls as well!
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Duncraggan on February 11, 2018, 11:03:30 AM
First two Stockman calves arrived last week, due date 22 February.
First one arrived Tues 30 January, second Thurs 01 February, have never had this problem before, dipped them for ticks with a Cypermethrin dip on the Monday, and gave them 5cc Multimin with Cu and Se, like I always do a month before calving to ease management.
The calves were 28kg (62lbs) and 29kg (64lbs), the second was dead on the Saturday morning! My calves normally average 80-100lbs, except with Gauge when they averaged less!
Post mortem, self, showed nothing evident, other than slight bleeding around the navel area.
I usually dip with a long acting Ivermectin before calving, could the Cypermethrin have been the problem? I need to do some research on the matter.
Both cows needed to have their placentas removed, unusual. Their BC scores are good, see picture, first calf heifer, even though we are in a drought.
No wonder the average age of farmers is >55yrs, it takes you that long to experience most problems!
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Duncraggan on February 11, 2018, 11:08:35 AM
Other picture.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 11, 2018, 11:59:59 AM
Thats a nicely made heifer you can see how dry it is-she have any Aussie Blood?  O0
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Duncraggan on February 12, 2018, 11:17:28 AM
Her sire is by Spry's All Gold D052. I am very excited to see how Stockman does on the All Gold progeny.
Her full brother is a Gold Merit bull, they are extremely easy fleshing!
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Okotoks on February 12, 2018, 01:07:57 PM
First two Stockman calves arrived last week, due date 22 February.
First one arrived Tues 30 January, second Thurs 01 February, have never had this problem before, dipped them for ticks with a Cypermethrin dip on the Monday, and gave them 5cc Multimin with Cu and Se, like I always do a month before calving to ease management.
The calves were 28kg (62lbs) and 29kg (64lbs), the second was dead on the Saturday morning! My calves normally average 80-100lbs, except with Gauge when they averaged less!
Post mortem, self, showed nothing evident, other than slight bleeding around the navel area.
I usually dip with a long acting Ivermectin before calving, could the Cypermethrin have been the problem? I need to do some research on the matter.
Both cows needed to have their placentas removed, unusual. Their BC scores are good, see picture, first calf heifer, even though we are in a drought.
No wonder the average age of farmers is >55yrs, it takes you that long to experience most problems!
Those are really small birth weights even for Stockman, I think high 70's to mid 80's catch the majority of his calves. Did you find out if it could be the Cypermethrin? You are right about it taking that long to experience most problems. I think the average age here has gone over 60! I attached a photo of a Crooked Post Stockman granddaughter at foot of our show cow last November. She is by Crooked Post Drover 28C.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: mbigelow on February 13, 2018, 09:08:25 AM
Duncraggan did you have any free choice mineral out?  I have had similar issues with cows having small calves that only live for 1 to 5 days poat calving.  I only started experiencing this problem in the drought coupled with multimin injections 1 month pre calving.  Usually it is the first few cow's that calve then the problem is gone.  I wonder if i should move the shots up to two months ahead of calving.  I just like doing it when i do because tjat is when we haul them up from the lower fields(15 min away) to the home calving field(160 acre field).  Keep us updated if you have anymore.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Duncraggan on February 17, 2018, 11:49:10 AM
Those are really small birth weights even for Stockman, I think high 70's to mid 80's catch the majority of his calves. Did you find out if it could be the Cypermethrin? You are right about it taking that long to experience most problems. I think the average age here has gone over 60! I attached a photo of a Crooked Post Stockman granddaughter at foot of our show cow last November. She is by Crooked Post Drover 28C.
They are tiny for me!
Unable to find anything on Google about the Cypermethrin either.
Great November show pair there too.
Title: Re: Saskvalley Yesterday
Post by: Duncraggan on February 17, 2018, 12:11:13 PM
Duncraggan did you have any free choice mineral out?  I have had similar issues with cows having small calves that only live for 1 to 5 days poat calving.  I only started experiencing this problem in the drought coupled with multimin injections 1 month pre calving.  Usually it is the first few cow's that calve then the problem is gone.  I wonder if i should move the shots up to two months ahead of calving.  I just like doing it when i do because tjat is when we haul them up from the lower fields(15 min away) to the home calving field(160 acre field).  Keep us updated if you have anymore.
Not for this group of stock in drought, intake becomes too high, only for my young, growing animals. I give a salt/phosphate/sulphur mix with molasses to bind it during normal seasons though.
Good information/advice there mbigelow, thanks. I will push the Multimin out to 6-weeks pre-calving in Spring to see what happens.
I tend to blame drought, and poor management decisions when I change my routine, before anything though!
I calved three more to Stockman this week, 37kg (81lbs) bull on Tuesday from a cow, front leg back and head out, and driven a long way to my facilities before a medium difficulty assist. Mother rejected the calf and we did assisted suckling, lay down and never got up without assistance to feed three times daily until it died Friday.
42kg (92lbs) heifer calved Wednesday out of a first calver, no problem!
Twins Thursday, 30kg (66lbs) bull and 29kg (64lbs) heifer from a cow. Small but strong, bull calf has a hernia on the navel but is nursing strongly.
Had three calvings after lunch today but my herdsman on duty is illiterate so don't know if they are all Stockman calves, used some Irish semen on my second pedigree herd and there were a couple that looked close too. Find out Monday when all hands are on deck again!