Shots given to calves when they are born?????

DB · Feb 1, 2012

I live in north central ohio and was curious if anyone on here gives shots to new born calves as soon as they are calved? If so what do you give them? I have heard that some give them a shot of vitamin a,d and e, or a shot of just vitamin E, then some give a vitamin E and also a dose of bo-se just help them get started.

So I was just curious as to what if any do other people give to a brand new just born calf. If you do could you please state where you are located state wise and maybe why you give it. I will learn some new ideas and I am sure some of the younger readers than I will learn something from this as well. Thank you ahead of time for the added information,

kfacres · Feb 1, 2012

we vac every calf born for an ecoli deal-- sometimes using an oral kind, sometimes a shot... don't remember the name- not close enough to look it up.

every calf also gets a shot of iron and a shot of Se. We have used MuSe, CeSe, and BoSe all three-- each is different/ yet the same.

our breeding females get shots of JVac or J5 ( I always get the two mixed up) plus a triangle 7 or 9- depending on the year... and a pinkeye shot...

synaka · Feb 1, 2012

Northern IL: We give orally, a tube of Bovine Ecolizer + C and 3 cc's of Probiotic Paste with vitamins, within 6 hours of calving. Seems to give them a big boost of energy and almost non-existant scours.

leanbeef · Feb 1, 2012

Tennessee...We don't give anything to newborn calves as long as they are healthy and mama is doing her job. If the cows are healthy and protected like they should be, and the calf comes out and does what he's supposed to do, then he should be protected against anything that cow has any antibodies toward. If a calf doesn't get colostrum or something goes wrong, then it's a different deal, and we handle that on a case-by-case basis with the goal of getting the calf going strong and back on mama as soon as possible (assuming that's an option).

We calve most of our cows in January and have a few fall calvers as well. We try to make sure they're all in a suitable pasture for calving...dry ground with cover/protection from any possible weather, plenty of good hay and plenty of water. The first thing I would do if/when I do anything is to spray the navel with Iodine, and I don't really worry about that unless something calves around the barn or somewhere that's not as clean as I'd like it to be. I've seen a calf with navel ill before, and you don't want that. There's not much way to save one of those.

savaged · Feb 1, 2012

Southern Ohio. Mine get a dose of Convert Day One Gel (Select Sires Probiotic Product) at birth. In the first week they get BoSe, Alpha 7, and Inforce 3 (nasal). If I band a bull calf I swap the Alpha 7 with a clostridium C/D with tetanus. I repeat the vac's at weaning (7 way & Inforce) and add a lepto for retained heifers. Injectable wormer at least at weaning, but usually at about three months. After that annual re-treatment of cows for lepto, respiratory/BVD/etc., and seven way.

rtmcc · Feb 1, 2012

We are in SE MN. Our calves get a shot of A,D & E and BoSe the first day and then Inforce 3 before they go back out with the mane cow herd, usually about day 3. Our cows are all vaccinated with the Guardian scours vaccine which seemed to work better for us than the Scour Guard.

Can't give you a perfect answer on why we give the vitamin and BoSe shots other than force of habit for a long time and having grown up in an area deficient in SE. I think Inforce or TSV-2 help prevent those little nasal sniffles when we get a foggy cold day like it was today and it sure doen't cost much per head when you think of what saving one calf is worth these days.

Ron
<cowboy>

Cowboy · Feb 1, 2012

I just recieved a PM from a member in Colo asking this very thing. We are in SW Neb, here I do NOT have an issue with scours as I calve the cows in a different spot every year, and it is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN !!

The ONE thing I absolutely insist on is -- ALPHA-7 as soon as they are awake and breathing, long before they ever get up 98% of the time. Since I started this 20 years ago, I have never lost a calf to Clostridium C-D, or for that matter -- any scours we used to have is flat gone too. Clostridium;s are in the ground every ehere, but it is far worse in areas of wet, cold and muddy winters. The bug is injested by the calves either by first nursing muudy uddered cows, or a few days later, they will almost always be seen licking a dry area of dirt. I always asked my self why this was the case, and realized that after a few days or a week, the calves stomach lining is iritated from the mild accidosis that raw milk causes (High PH and mild when raw, but lower Ph to accidic when fermented). The calves feel some distress so will eat dirt to help scratch the stomach lining, thus injesting the Clostridium.

Most or at least a very high percentage of calves affected by C-D will show up close to the 30 day time line. Some a week sooner or later. The Alpha 7 is formulated for newborns, and is given Sub-Q at 2 ml. I always repeat with Vision-8 at 30 days. Works like a charm, and you will sleep well knowing that! There is nothing worse than finding a perfectly healthy calf one day and is dead the next!

Good luck to every one this season, we are close to getting started, couple weeks or so for my first one -- Mono x Foreplay - actually 2 full sisters a week apart!! Yippee (clapping)

Terry

ZNT · Feb 2, 2012

Cowboy said:
The ONE thing I absolutely insist on is -- ALPHA-7 as soon as they are awake and breathing, long before they ever get up 98% of the time. Since I started this 20 years ago, I have never lost a calf to Clostridium C-D, or for that matter -- any scours we used to have is flat gone too. Clostridium;s are in the ground every ehere, but it is far worse in areas of wet, cold and muddy winters. The bug is injested by the calves either by first nursing muudy uddered cows, or a few days later, they will almost always be seen licking a dry area of dirt. I always asked my self why this was the case, and realized that after a few days or a week, the calves stomach lining is iritated from the mild accidosis that raw milk causes (High PH and mild when raw, but lower Ph to accidic when fermented). The calves feel some distress so will eat dirt to help scratch the stomach lining, thus injesting the Clostridium.

I agree. Alpha 7 is a must for newborns. Everything else is to make the owners feel warm and fuzzy. Not quite sure how "value added" they are though. Alpha 7 pays for itself.

kfacres · Feb 2, 2012

ZNT said:
Cowboy said:

The ONE thing I absolutely insist on is -- ALPHA-7 as soon as they are awake and breathing, long before they ever get up 98% of the time. Since I started this 20 years ago, I have never lost a calf to Clostridium C-D, or for that matter -- any scours we used to have is flat gone too. Clostridium;s are in the ground every ehere, but it is far worse in areas of wet, cold and muddy winters. The bug is injested by the calves either by first nursing muudy uddered cows, or a few days later, they will almost always be seen licking a dry area of dirt. I always asked my self why this was the case, and realized that after a few days or a week, the calves stomach lining is iritated from the mild accidosis that raw milk causes (High PH and mild when raw, but lower Ph to accidic when fermented). The calves feel some distress so will eat dirt to help scratch the stomach lining, thus injesting the Clostridium.

Click to expand...

I agree. Alpha 7 is a must for newborns. Everything else is to make the owners feel warm and fuzzy. Not quite sure how "value added" they are though. Alpha 7 pays for itself.

you cannot deny iron or Se-- in a proven deficient area. Nor can you some sort of Ecoli, or scour prevention-- in a historically problematic herd.

Just the same as tetnus in areas of concern- on older calves at banding, or cutting- or past experiences...

CAB · Feb 2, 2012

Last year started using a product named Acheive with crytex. It is given orally asap. We gave Alpha 7 last year asap. I lost our local supplier for Alpha 7 and my other local supplier carries Vision 7. Would like to hear PPL's opinions about possibly switching to Vision 7 instead of having to hunt down Alpha 7. Thanks in advance.

DL · Feb 2, 2012

DB - talk to your vet - what anyone person does on this site might be totally inappropriate for you depending not only on where you are (north central Ohio) but where you calve, what you feed, what you supplement, what is the prevalence of what disease in your herd and what your cows are vaccinated with

CAB - my understanding is that Alpha 7 gives better immunity and protection after a single dose than Vision 7

That being said and because DB asked I give BoSe, AD&E and Alpha 7 or Vision 7 - middle of Michigan and we are selenium deficient

bhcattle · Feb 3, 2012

I use inforce 3, muse & a blue bolus that I forget what it's called.

Can somoene tell me who makes Alpha 3 and what it's purpose is?

leanbeef · Feb 3, 2012

bhcattle said:
I use inforce 3, muse & a blue bolus that I forget what it's called.

Can somoene tell me who makes Alpha 3 and what it's purpose is?

Alpha 7 is a 7-way Clostridium vaccine that protects against Blackleg and other diseases caused by Clostridia bacteria. Manufactured by BI and available at most farm supply stores that sell cattle vaccines...in the refrigerated section. My opinion is that cows should pass early protection to their newborn calves in the colostrum, and vaccines are not needed at birth. Or SHOULDN'T be needed if the cows are sufficiently protected. I think most vaccine salespeople and manufacturers will tell you the same thing. In our area at least, and I think most parts of the country, ALL calves should be vaccinated for blackleg by the time they are a few months old. The protection they receive from their mother's colostrum will fade, and it will depend on several factors that determine how much protection the calf received from her anyway. For instance, a two year old heifer hasn't been exposed to all the germs in her lifetime that a mature cow has been, so a cow's colostrum is probably more potent in terms of antibodies. Also, it's pretty understood that cows that give MORE milk have LESS concentrated colostrum...since a calf gets less milk from a lower producing cow, it makes sense that her colostrum has to be more concentrated to give her calf ample protection. This is just Mother Nature taking care of her babies...

There are other Blackleg vaccines available. Alpha 7 is popular because it protects with one shot...no booster needed 3-6 weeks after like a lot of other brands. If you aren't vaccinating for Blackleg and haven't lost a calf, consider yourself lucky and start doing it! It's CHEAP vaccine. Our calves get Blackleg vaccination when we vaccinate our cows before breeding season, so the calves are approximately 30-60 days old. Then we vaccinate for 4-way respiratory and 5-way Lepto at weaning.

SlickTxMaine · Feb 3, 2012

Anyone in Texas seeing more issues this year due to the drought?? We had a calf born, looked good, up and nursing quickly. The next morning nursing fine, that evening, calf could barely walk. Hunched over, just really weak looking. The cow is poor coming off the drought, but appears to have adequate amount of milk, although the quality of the milk may be questionable. We have been supplementing with a bottle. The calf is alert, but still weak, slow moving and she shuffles her feet when she walks. Heard of several others in our area having issues, and they seem to be blaming the drought and poor quality pasture and hay.

firesweepranch · Feb 3, 2012

leanbeef said:
Alpha 7 is a 7-way Clostridium vaccine that protects against Blackleg and other diseases caused by Clostridia bacteria. Manufactured by BI and available at most farm supply stores that sell cattle vaccines...in the refrigerated section. My opinion is that cows should pass early protection to their newborn calves in the colostrum, and vaccines are not needed at birth. Or SHOULDN'T be needed if the cows are sufficiently protected. I think most vaccine salespeople and manufacturers will tell you the same thing. In our area at least, and I think most parts of the country, ALL calves should be vaccinated for blackleg by the time they are a few months old. The protection they receive from their mother's colostrum will fade, and it will depend on several factors that determine how much protection the calf received from her anyway. For instance, a two year old heifer hasn't been exposed to all the germs in her lifetime that a mature cow has been, so a cow's colostrum is probably more potent in terms of antibodies. Also, it's pretty understood that cows that give MORE milk have LESS concentrated colostrum...since a calf gets less milk from a lower producing cow, it makes sense that her colostrum has to be more concentrated to give her calf ample protection. This is just Mother Nature taking care of her babies...

There are other Blackleg vaccines available. Alpha 7 is popular because it protects with one shot...no booster needed 3-6 weeks after like a lot of other brands. If you aren't vaccinating for Blackleg and haven't lost a calf, consider yourself lucky and start doing it! It's CHEAP vaccine. Our calves get Blackleg vaccination when we vaccinate our cows before breeding season, so the calves are approximately 30-60 days old. Then we vaccinate for 4-way respiratory and 5-way Lepto at weaning.

Isn't Alpha 7 the same as Ultrabac 7? We have always vaccinated cows with Cattlemaster Gold and Ultrabac 7, and the calves are vaccinated before weaning and 4 weeks later. We don't give any shots at birth, but have had a small problem with scours at about 10 to 14 days.

leanbeef · Feb 3, 2012

firesweepranch said:
leanbeef said:

Alpha 7 is a 7-way Clostridium vaccine that protects against Blackleg and other diseases caused by Clostridia bacteria. Manufactured by BI and available at most farm supply stores that sell cattle vaccines...in the refrigerated section. My opinion is that cows should pass early protection to their newborn calves in the colostrum, and vaccines are not needed at birth. Or SHOULDN'T be needed if the cows are sufficiently protected. I think most vaccine salespeople and manufacturers will tell you the same thing. In our area at least, and I think most parts of the country, ALL calves should be vaccinated for blackleg by the time they are a few months old. The protection they receive from their mother's colostrum will fade, and it will depend on several factors that determine how much protection the calf received from her anyway. For instance, a two year old heifer hasn't been exposed to all the germs in her lifetime that a mature cow has been, so a cow's colostrum is probably more potent in terms of antibodies. Also, it's pretty understood that cows that give MORE milk have LESS concentrated colostrum...since a calf gets less milk from a lower producing cow, it makes sense that her colostrum has to be more concentrated to give her calf ample protection. This is just Mother Nature taking care of her babies...

There are other Blackleg vaccines available. Alpha 7 is popular because it protects with one shot...no booster needed 3-6 weeks after like a lot of other brands. If you aren't vaccinating for Blackleg and haven't lost a calf, consider yourself lucky and start doing it! It's CHEAP vaccine. Our calves get Blackleg vaccination when we vaccinate our cows before breeding season, so the calves are approximately 30-60 days old. Then we vaccinate for 4-way respiratory and 5-way Lepto at weaning.

Click to expand...

Isn't Alpha 7 the same as Ultrabac 7? We have always vaccinated cows with Cattlemaster Gold and Ultrabac 7, and the calves are vaccinated before weaning and 4 weeks later. We don't give any shots at birth, but have had a small problem with scours at about 10 to 14 days.

Similar product...different company. Ultrabac is Pfizer's version. Probably very similar I would guess. Scours can be caused by different pathogens or reasons...some are viral...some are bacterial...some are neither. The best prevention/treatment depends on what's causing the problem.

bwl1101 · Feb 4, 2012

West Central Ohio- I give Bo-Se, calf guard, naselgen, A&D, and a dose of an antibiotic. And iodione the navel, my vet gave me this protocal that he uses on his cattle. Works well for me.

leanbeef · Feb 5, 2012

I hope this post isn't taken the wrong way...it isn't meant to criticize or correct anybody else's practices, but I do want to challenge people to think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. I'm reading some of these protocols that it sounds like breeders are following for every baby calf born on the place, and I'm thinking, "No wonder some people are afraid to eat beef!" Why do we feel the need to give a newborn calf 4 or 5 injections?... And antibiotics?... A cow's colostrum is formulated to give that calf all the protection it needs for any normal situation. I understand the old adage, "Better safe than sorry" very well, and I also think we can be overprotective to the point of putting something at risk. Administering antibiotics unnecessarily increases the chances of resistance or tolerance to the drugs being administered. I think as breeders we are all entrusted to be as responsible and as discerning as we can possibly be and to continue trying to learn and improve our policies and our procedures so we become the best stewards we can be. I still like to give Mother Nature credit where credit is due...I can't do it better...I'm just here to help out when she needs me to. If you learn to listen to your instincts instead of trying to outsmart her, she will tell you when that is.

CAB · Feb 5, 2012

leanbeef said:
I hope this post isn't taken the wrong way...it isn't meant to criticize or correct anybody else's practices, but I do want to challenge people to think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. I'm reading some of these protocols that it sounds like breeders are following for every baby calf born on the place, and I'm thinking, "No wonder some people are afraid to eat beef!" Why do we feel the need to give a newborn calf 4 or 5 injections?... And antibiotics?... A cow's colostrum is formulated to give that calf all the protection it needs for any normal situation. I understand the old adage, "Better safe than sorry" very well, and I also think we can be overprotective to the point of putting something at risk. Administering antibiotics unnecessarily increases the chances of resistance or tolerance to the drugs being administered. I think as breeders we are all entrusted to be as responsible and as discerning as we can possibly be and to continue trying to learn and improve our policies and our procedures so we become the best stewards we can be. I still like to give Mother Nature credit where credit is due...I can't do it better...I'm just here to help out when she needs me to. If you learn to listen to your instincts instead of trying to outsmart her, she will tell you when that is.

I agree mostly with what you are saying & I was questioning the antibiotics especially when the newborn's immune system is being charged for their lifetime. IMO the antibiotics could antagonize the immunity that is needing to be established. That being said, I think that we need to realize also that we are from all corners of the world on here and we need to consult our local area vets or specialists. Calving in larger open pastures in Tn. for instance is not going to be like having to keep cows up close to get in if need be. This wet snow on top of cold mud produces different challenges for a calf's immune system than what a calf born in warmer climates has to deal with. So one blanket vaccination protocol is needless to say, not going to work equally for everyone.

leanbeef · Feb 6, 2012

CAB said:
leanbeef said:

I hope this post isn't taken the wrong way...it isn't meant to criticize or correct anybody else's practices, but I do want to challenge people to think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. I'm reading some of these protocols that it sounds like breeders are following for every baby calf born on the place, and I'm thinking, "No wonder some people are afraid to eat beef!" Why do we feel the need to give a newborn calf 4 or 5 injections?... And antibiotics?... A cow's colostrum is formulated to give that calf all the protection it needs for any normal situation. I understand the old adage, "Better safe than sorry" very well, and I also think we can be overprotective to the point of putting something at risk. Administering antibiotics unnecessarily increases the chances of resistance or tolerance to the drugs being administered. I think as breeders we are all entrusted to be as responsible and as discerning as we can possibly be and to continue trying to learn and improve our policies and our procedures so we become the best stewards we can be. I still like to give Mother Nature credit where credit is due...I can't do it better...I'm just here to help out when she needs me to. If you learn to listen to your instincts instead of trying to outsmart her, she will tell you when that is.

Click to expand...

I agree mostly with what you are saying & I was questioning the antibiotics especially when the newborn's immune system is being charged for their lifetime. IMO the antibiotics could antagonize the immunity that is needing to be established. That being said, I think that we need to realize also that we are from all corners of the world on here and we need to consult our local area vets or specialists. Calving in larger open pastures in Tn. for instance is not going to be like having to keep cows up close to get in if need be. This wet snow on top of cold mud produces different challenges for a calf's immune system than what a calf born in warmer climates has to deal with. So one blanket vaccination protocol is needless to say, not going to work equally for everyone.

This is true...I agree.

Shots given to calves when they are born?????

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