Show Steer not gaining weight (suggestions)

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Ktkurtz

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I have a September born Charolais x Maine Anjou steer. I got him May 30 and he weighed 595lbs and today he weighed 675lbs. It's been two months an he's only gained 80lbs. I've been feeding him 10 lbs morning and night, which he doesn't clean out quickly (it takes him until his next feeding to eat it) he gets as much hay as he will eat (which is only about one flake a day) and I've tried giving him b12 and appetite igniter to boost his feed consumption but they haven't worked. Any ideas on what I should do next? He needs to be 1200lbs by December.
 

RyanChandler

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The solution isn't very popular on here but I'd take the hay away and mix his feed half WHOLE corn and half finisher. The whole corn will act as a scratch. Add some monensin/ rumensin and bovatec will prevent digestibility problems.  I have had the hardest doing of all- Holsteins- butterball fat at a yr old on this ration.  Feedlots all over the country feed steins out on what they call a calf fed finishing ration.  They will be on this type ration from about 3mnths old until slaughter where they will consistently finish and grade choice at 1150lbs- all while never consuming and more roughage than they might pick out of their bedding.

Additionally, I'd have your calf evaluated by a vet.  He's on track to set new record for poorest converter ever. Bout 1 lb of gain per ~15lbs of feed.
 

Bradenh

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Skip feeding him for about 2 days, get him on sure champ and get him on a heifer feed so it's not as hot

And make sure he is wormed
 

Bradenh

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I know that when it's hot and your feeding finisher and it's got a lot of "energy" in it- it can and will knock one off feed

Not saying it makes them gain nessicerily but it allows them to eat more, and more bulk can alot of times mean they gain better

You have to start slow and get his gut working properly before you go anywhere, it doesn't fix over night, so start by cooling the feed off, get him going and then work up from there
 

RyanChandler

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I agree buddy but takes this into consideration:

The calf is eating great. In fact, at his weight, he's eating over 3% of his body weight in grain alone.  This leads me to believe its not a consumption problem, but a nutrient density problem. 
 

Bradenh

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True- I agree but is it a nutrient density problem- or is it also accredited to possibly an issue digesting those nutrients possibly leading to suggest his gut could be "burned up"(not sure what the term is)- leading to wanting to slow it back down alittle bit and see if those bugs don't get back to working in there leading to more efficient digestion
 

chambero

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Was he weaned May 30?  If so, he went backwards for a couple of weeks.

You arent going to make 1200 lbs by early Dec.

Implant him with Revalor G or S.  If he is truly eating 20 lbs a day and not gaining any more than that, either your feed is no good or your calf isnt.

I dont usually start on finisher til Sep, but at least in Tx/Ok its probably cool enough this summer to try it now.  If you need to feed hay, feed alfalfa or such so that he's getting max nutrition out of everything going in.
 

rackranch

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I think Chambero makes a very valid point here.  I would also take into consideration the timing of the weigh in too.  A bucket of water is 40lbs.  He may have been more full the first time he was weighed and lost due to weaning as well  If you haven't, I would weigh him at the same time every week for a month and then figure you ADG's.  G-Luck
 

aswaim

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I agree with show stopper. the term hot he is referring to is the amount of corn (carbohydrates in the diet) carbohydrates are converted to glucose (sugar) and stored as fat.(to much carbohydrates will "burn up" the good bugs in the rumen causing rumen acidosis)  the calf needs to grow before he can get fat. that's why feedlots having growing rations and only have cattle on finishing rations for 60 to 90 days or how they see fit. and Im totally in on the sure champ or some kind of regular probiotic. we have always used sure champ in conjunction with weekly doses of either gel type probiotics. and you definitely need to be on a regular worming program. and id also say keep him hungry. feed him a pound less than what he can consume for a while and clean his feed out of his trough after 30 minutes or an hour. make him want to come to the bunk and eat.
 

RyanChandler

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aswaim said:
I agree with show stopper. the term hot he is referring to is the amount of corn (carbohydrates in the diet) carbohydrates are converted to glucose (sugar) and stored as fat.(to much carbohydrates will "burn up" the good bugs in the rumen causing rumen acidosis)  the calf needs to grow before he can get fat. that's why feedlots having growing rations and only have cattle on finishing rations for 60 to 90 days or how they see fit. and Im totally in on the sure champ or some kind of regular probiotic. we have always used sure champ in conjunction with weekly doses of either gel type probiotics. and you definitely need to be on a regular worming program. and id also say keep him hungry. feed him a pound less than what he can consume for a while and clean his feed out of his trough after 30 minutes or an hour. make him want to come to the bunk and eat.

I think it's safe to say you're not familiar with monensin/ rumensin.

Hot refers to energy.  I can make a ration hot(er) by jacking up the protein, fat, or carbs. To suggest it only refers to carbs is not exactly right.  Excess protein and fat are converted to sugars as well. Fat provide over twice the energy of carbs. Hence the reason stabilized rice brand is so highly regarded to put that final cover on one. 

You can choose any option you want, OP.  With my ration you might come close to your goal. All you need is 3lbs of gain a day.  But with the results you've presented us with, and lowering the TDN % of the ration, I assure you you won't come close.

To say a calf needs to grow before he CAN get fat is terribly misleading as well.  Familiarize yourself with the -Holstein calf fed model-

CALVES WITH BURNT UP GUTS AREN'T CONSUMING 20+lbs of grain/day.
 

Bradenh

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A calf with a burned up gut can infact eat 20 lbs a day, he can't digest it which is pretty obvious here regardless of how much you want to insinuate that aswaim is ignorant

Go ahead and give this calf whole corn and finisher for a little while and see if that makes him any easier doing- if this worked on anything besides holsteins I'm sure it would be used more often

I'm not going command you what to do, I'm just going to state the obvious

A commercial feed isn't going to give you results like the ones your getting- none- the obvious issue here no matter how much it's denied is the calf is not digesting what you feed him

I'm no Holstein jock or expert. If the steer was mine instead of continuing to feed him HOT (no matter how you define it) feed and making the issue worse 

I would cool the feed off, make it easier to digest, more probiotics, and get his gut working

I'm not saying fat steers don't need hot feed

I'm saying it takes baby steps

Im finished posting here you have my suggestions and that's all I can offer

 

frostback

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You guys are arguing about changing feed but you don't have clue what he is feeding to begin with. Maybe should find that out before you change it.
 

RyanChandler

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Go ahead and give this calf whole corn and finisher for a little while and see if that makes him any easier doing- if this worked on anything besides holsteins I'm sure it would be used more often

Traditional beef cattle get way too fat- way too quick on this ration.  It is also relatively expensive on a cost per lb of gain basis.  Hence the reason it's not more common.  Holsteins have higher maintenance requirements than traditional beef breeds.  Therefore, they must be fed a higher energy ration in order to convert more efficiently.  The OPs calf, coincidentally, also suffers from poor conversion efficiency.  It's my opinion that a denser ration- denser than whatever he's already on- is the best starting point.


frostback said:
You guys are arguing about changing feed but you don't have clue what he is feeding to begin with. Maybe should find that out before you change it.

Regardless, w/e it is, it's not working.
 

chambero

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One other little note.  As said before, something is significantly wrong when a calf is eating and almost comes to a stop on gaining.  In my experience, the first symptom of a calf that is about to cripple is they suddenly stop gaining.  No idea if that applies here, usually it happens in the 900-1000 lb range.
 

RyanChandler

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I just called the rep in New Braunsfels and spoke w/ him about the feed.  While he didn't know the exact TDN%- he did say that he had personally fed a good bit of this feed and had experienced conversion rates anywhere from 7-10:1.  The Premium feed you've been using is regarded as a "grower" ration, whereas you need a "finisher." I talked to him about your situation and he, like I, suggested you should switch to their Dietert 60 feed.  Its by the same manufacturer.  The feed you've been feeding is 40% steamed rolled corn where as the Dietert 60 is 60%.  He also mentioned he has a liquid fat -Mega lac- he'd highly encourage you to add starting at 1oz per feeding and working your way up.  He said he's there M-F and he'd help you get a plan to gradually ramp up the Mega lac.  <beer>
 

Ktkurtz

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Okay, thank you. Going to the feedstore Friday and we will get those. I've had people recommend the heavy weight high octane supplement, could that help any?
 

rackranch

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It sounds like you made the decision to put him on a finisher instead of a grower.  I hope it works, but if a 675lb steer isn't gaining on a grower it will be just as hard to get conversions on a finisher in the heat of the summer.  Keep him cool and rinse as much as possible.

I still feel there is a reason for your steer not getting conversions othe than the TDN of his feed.  Good luck and keep us posted.  Please post pictures of your steer when you get a chance.  I would like to see his frame score. Thanks
 

Bradenh

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put him on whole corn as x bar recommended and liquid fat

But please update us in December how it all turned out and if it made him gain faster
 
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