Sick Heifer Follow-up

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savaged

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Greenfield OH
Last week I posted about a heifer I bought in October that has continued to have respiratory issues and fever despite treatment with numerous antibiotics including all the heavy hitters.

As suggested by several Steer Planet responses, I took her to Ohio State Thursday night.  They have ruled out pneumonia and any tracheal or sinus blockage.  After fecal studies, chest films, a scope of the respiratory tract and lungs, microscopic exam of lung fluid (looking for parasites), and other physical examination, they do not have a diagnosis.  She has some inflammation of the lung tissue, but according to the Doc managing my case it is an unusual presentation.  She continues to have a good appetite and healthy appearance in general, but the temperature and rapid respiration have persisted.

Yesterday, despite having found no evidence for them, they treated her for lung worm, in addition to administration of a med for the lung inflammation, plus Micotil.  As of my conversation with the vet this evening, she had responded well so far to this protocol, though it bothers me that they can tell me why it's happening.  On Monday, they will have a definitive answer as to the possibility of BVD-P, but the vet seems to think this is a remote possibility due to her strong physical condition, normal bowels, and continued healthy weight gain.

Any other ideas or thoughts would be welcome.
 

Cattledog

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Man, I sure hope they can get this figured out for you.  Has the previous owner given you any insight on what it may be?  I didn't know if he had anything on his place that came down with the same thing.  I know you spent a pretty good chunk of change on her so I hope everything works itself out.
 

savaged

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I spoke with the seller again last night.  He told me that he has contacted the buyer of each heifer that mine spent time with, and in fact has seen a couple of them since.  None have had any medical issues.

It's really frustrating because she literally started showing symptoms almost immediately after I got her, and we took such pains to have her in a well cared for and clean space, away from other cattle (except our other show heifer in an adjacent pen).  I know that what she has, at least part of it, is contagious because my other heifer, that we had raised, got sick about 10 days after we brought the new calf home.

I'll sure be glad to get this resolved one way or another.
 

Cattledog

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That does sound frustrating!  At least she is still eating fine.  Has the sickness taken a toll on her appearance?  You would think that with being that sick she would really take a hit.
 

Cowboy

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Guys, this may be a late and obvious thought -- but did the University give some thought to the BRSV line of respiratory illness??

BRSV -- Bovine Respiratory Syncycial Virus -- is a bad dude. Having spent several years on a very large catle deal in NE MIssouri in early 90's, you could literaly walk the calves in the barns -- over 2500 head of calves mind you in - at that time - unventilated open sided barns ,, and have no signs of anything worng at noon and by 2 PM start dragging out the dead ones.

It is silent almost up until it strikes, and by that time -- the lungs are over 1/2 full of yellow puss, and they are toast. It is almost always deadly after you see the signs of not being able to breath correctly -- a slight caugh but not too severe until close to death. They would eat, chew thier cud and all the good stuff, then -- if moved more than a few feet or so, would simply run out of air and go down -- be dead in minutes. They would run a fever of 103 to105 - but only for a few hours time before the lungs would fill up.

I was so frustrated -- I felt helpless as I watched hundreds die. It all came down to ventilation, removal of the ammonia present BEFORE the disease struck and further damaged the lungs.

Your hfr seems like she has gotten the early symptoms, but due to some of the theropy -- it has stopped at that point. We used Micotil alot -- it saved the early ones who may just have had an ear down. None of the others ever lived more than 48 hours.

Before you purchsed your hfr, where was she in terms of housing -- what part of the country was she raised in or later moved to?? High humidity areas are much worse for that bug!

Don't know if this will at all help you -- just wanted to relay the story of what I went thru out there -- and what they looked like and did as they progressed. They always had good appetite, just were not nearly as aggressive due to lack of air. It was VERY subtle -- almost silent right up until the end was near.

Best of luck where ever you are -- she may not have this type of problem, but I felt the cring of regret had I not at least mentioned it!

Terry
 

onthegofarmer

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savaged said:
Last week I posted about a heifer I bought in October that has continued to have respiratory issues and fever despite treatment with numerous antibiotics including all the heavy hitters.

As suggested by several Steer Planet responses, I took her to Ohio State Thursday night.   They have ruled out pneumonia and any tracheal or sinus blockage.  After fecal studies, chest films, a scope of the respiratory tract and lungs, microscopic exam of lung fluid (looking for parasites), and other physical examination, they do not have a diagnosis.  She has some inflammation of the lung tissue, but according to the Doc managing my case it is an unusual presentation.  She continues to have a good appetite and healthy appearance in general, but the temperature and rapid respiration have persisted.

Yesterday, despite having found no evidence for them, they treated her for lung worm, in addition to administration of a med for the lung inflammation, plus Micotil.  As of my conversation with the vet this evening, she had responded well so far to this protocol, though it bothers me that they can tell me why it's happening.   On Monday, they will have a definitive answer as to the possibility of BVD-P, but the vet seems to think this is a remote possibility due to her strong physical condition, normal bowels, and continued healthy weight gain.

Any other ideas or thoughts would be welcome.

How was your Heifer acting prior to taking her to Columbus?
 

savaged

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A significant part of the mystery is how good a "doer" she has been in every other way since I brought her home.  She has maintained a good appetite, had solid bowel movements, has appeared alert, and has gained a considerable amount of weight. (She weighed 825 at OSU, which represents a gain of al least 80 pounds).  Her hair coat also looks good.  In fact, at anyone's first glance you would not suspect any problems.

When the symptoms started, I noted that she got winded very quickly when sparring with the other heifer.  That is the one issue you can see in addition to the respiration rate, although she does not seem labored when getting up or in just typical day to day activity.

This has been going on seven weeks, with no real pattern of worsening condition.  The vet has even asked about the possibility of an allergic reaction of some type, which seems like a stretch to me, especially since my other heifer became sick about 10 days after she was brought in.

I should know more with the lab work tomorrow.
 

onthegofarmer

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I was just wondering, we have a heifer that eats well and seems to have no problem but chronically sweats.  She does not carry a temp ether.
 

simtal

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I say if she gains and looks fine and eats well, I'd quit wasting my money and just let her do her thing.
 

BCCC

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simtal said:
I say if she gains and looks fine and eats well, I'd quit wasting my money and just let her do her thing.
We have had gilts that got sick early on with a fever, and when they go untreated it will make them go sterile.
 

savaged

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Greenfield OH
onthegofarmer said:
I was just wondering, we have a heifer that eats well and seems to have no problem but chronically sweats.  She does not carry a temp ether.


Well, that's just it, each time the antibiotic levels drop she spikes a temp,  her breathing becomes more labored, starts to cough, gets a runny nose.........
 

Cowboy

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The more I read your responses, the more it looks like BRSV. They will become Chronic lungers after a few non-successful treatments - they live -- BUT???

The fact that she gets winded easily is a dead give away on her lung capacity -- kind of like only being able to breath out of one side of your nose -- the air gets to both lungs -- but only half as much! Her lungs would be 25-30% less capacity almost without a doubt.

Not going ot die it sounds like, but has the damage been done?? Hopefully not -- best of luck wit hthis one!

Terry
 

CAB

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  The more I think about your description, I think that Terry has the most plausible diagnosis. Have your vets ruled out BRSV? What had the heifer's vaccination protocol been? Would a regimen of steroids help the lungs recuperate?
 

SWMO

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Carthage MO
We had a steer that ran a HIGH temp for weeks.  Would treat and temp would go down and then back up.  We used everything except Draxon as it was not available yet.  Banamine kept this steer alive.  I treated this steer for three weeks prior to him starting to respond.  He never lost his appetite but did not gain during that period.  He also lost ALL of his hair and never really grew a whole lot back.

He was fine but didn't get off to a great start and we didn't get him finished in time for the county fair.  He finished a couple of months after the other steers he ran with.

I have never been so tired of doctoring a calf in my life.  It seemed like nothing but time and banamine worked.  It was a good thing that he had a good attitude.  Because he was certainly a pin cushion.
 

Jill

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I know several years ago we had one that had had pnemonia as a baby and once those lungs are damaged they never breath right again, she was fine until she would run and play and then she would get winded.  I would be more concerned about the fever, normally when there is fever there is infection somewhere in the body.
 

red

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LaRue, Ohio
MLK32 can relate to this. She had a cow that developed very similar conditions. She just couldn't get over no matter how much babying she gave her.

Red
 

savaged

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Greenfield OH
Talked a long time with Dr. Lakritz at OSU tonight.  By the way, this guy is one of the most accessible and friendly professionals I have ever dealt with.  So far I can't say enough good things about the service I have received.

Her temp went to 104 today (same ole same ole - the Micotil would have worn off by today) - they have used rinsing and now have a big fan on her - I guess it's helping some with the temp.

Completed some more studies on her and in particular a urine analysis looking for any infection.  Heart still sounds good, and she continues to eat for them pretty well.  Short of the what he characterizes as a moderate lung inflammation, can not find a good reason for all this crap.  If it is a lung infection at its core, he basically says I am out of luck because of the lack of proper response to Baytril/Draxxin/Nuflor/Excede/Micotil.

Lung condition is not consistent with the typical pneumonia/shipping fever case.  Blood work and lung sample analysis will be completed sometime this week. I know that they are looking for possible BVD, but I'd assume that other potential variations will be a focus too, including mycoplasma and BRSV?

If it's one of these he says it was definitely present at time of purchase, and when I asked him more directly, he believes that the pattern and condition are consistent with a more entrenched problem than anything she might have developed from transport or moving stress.  In other words, a preexisting and underlying issue that has probably bloomed following some type of secondary infection.

Bottom line is he believes that best case is an animal that will be high maintenance, need to be kept environmentally cool most all of the time, may have bouts of significant respiratory issues, may have breeding difficulties, and likely can't be turned to pasture as with "normal" cows.  Of course, worst case is related death, or a positive BVD diagnosis that renders her to quick hamburger.

Anybody got a kid in vet school?  I've got just the heifer for you - and only five grand!

I'll wait on the lab results, but I'm feeling more and more like a bought a lemon - a really expensive one.

 

bcosu

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it may sound kinda like it is a dumb suggestion, but have you tried la-200? i know of people who had some respiratory problems with their calves and they tried nuflor micatil and others and la-200 worked. i don't think it's a cureall but it is a suggestion.
 
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