Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: beebe on April 27, 2021, 09:36:55 PM

Title: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: beebe on April 27, 2021, 09:36:55 PM


I suppose I am about to step on someone's toes here, but has anyone but me noticed the head on the heifer on the cover of the April edition of Shorthorn Country.  I guess I don't get out much but I have never seen a head on an animal that looks like an anteater with huge ears.  Without looking I will predict that the adrenal hair whorl will be at least 6 inches behind the shoulder blades.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: knabe on April 28, 2021, 03:43:09 AM
ttiwwp
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 28, 2021, 06:16:11 AM
I have also noticed that almost everything in their sale weighed 80 plus or minus pounds with stacked pedigrees from the highest bw genetics in the breed O0
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: knabe on April 28, 2021, 06:42:11 AM
I have noticed shorthorns have short horns.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: oakview on April 28, 2021, 08:58:08 AM
That's femininity.  Long necks + long heads = show winners.  Right or wrong, that's the way it is.  I don't think I'd worry too much about that program fibbing on birth weights. 
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: beebe on April 28, 2021, 09:02:03 AM

I have noticed shorthorns have short horn have noticed that some don't have any at all.    I lean towards Bonsma type cattle.  I don't know where she came from and I don't mean to pick on other peoples cattle, I don't see heads like that.  What do the heads of her male siblings look like?
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: knabe on April 28, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
It’s obvious to pick on shorthorns for bw.

The “cute head” is another deal.

To me, they are like the runts of the litter.

It would be interesting to know from a development perspective why that happens in all animals.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: Medium Rare on April 28, 2021, 11:44:41 AM
I wish I had their sale average.

I expected people to complain about her nose. The calf appears to be a fairly tightly line bred animal.

The Shorthorn Country appears to be nearly begging for high quality pictures that can be used on the cover of the magazine on a regular basis. I wish more commercial breeders would step up to the plate.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: beebe on April 28, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
That's femininity.  Long necks + long heads = show winners.  Right or wrong, that's the way it is.  I don't think I'd worry too much about that program fibbing on birth weights.

Feminine is not what came to mind when I saw that head.  Ribbons would explain a lot.  Ribbons have led cattle all over the place from good useful cattle 100 years ago to the belt buckle cattle to cattle that the Denver Champion were so big you could only see the top of the hat on six foot four Ric Hoyt as he stood behind him.

As far as cute heads and runts is concerned that could happen but my top end have heads that look like bulls and heifers look like a female.  Again I don't know whose cattle I picked on and I hope they have great success and long life. But I have never seen cattle with heads like that.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 29, 2021, 07:25:35 AM
It’s obvious to pick on shorthorns for bw. TILL YOU HAVE A 130 POUND CALF OUT OF A GRANDDAUGHTER  OF ASSET SO CALLED CALVING EASE WHO IS NOW ONE OF THOSE BULLS WHO HERSELF WEIGHED 72 WHOS DAM WEIGHED 68 AND WAS CE BREEDING WHOS GRANDAM WAS 0 BW FROM 30 YEARS AGO AND I OWNED ALL 3 2 OF WHICH LIVED TO BE 14 PLUS YEARS OLD SORTA LIKE DS HUH? O0

The “cute head” is another deal.

To me, they are like the runts of the litter.

It would be interesting to know from a development perspective why that happens in all animals.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: Duncraggan on May 02, 2021, 11:20:42 AM
I wish I had their sale average.

I expected people to complain about her nose. The calf appears to be a fairly tightly line bred animal.

The Shorthorn Country appears to be nearly begging for high quality pictures that can be used on the cover of the magazine on a regular basis. I wish more commercial breeders would step up to the plate.
I must concur that the picture is a poor representation of the Shorthorn breed.
Because of her black nose she would be deregistered from the purebred register, on inspection, in South Africa. Makes sense, but can be a blow!
Had a 100% pure, DNA verified for three generations, pedigree that threw a black patch on the shoulder, out of the blue. Beautiful heifer, probably in the top 10% of the drop, but had to get rid of her.
Have her on feed now and will eat her, hope she tastes good!
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: librarian on May 11, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
It’s obvious to pick on shorthorns for bw.

The “cute head” is another deal.

To me, they are like the runts of the litter.

It would be interesting to know from a development perspective why that happens in all animals.

Neoteny, domestication syndrome. I read a lot about this when I was studying the lineback color pattern. It also applies to white heifer disease.
https://www.genetics.org/content/197/3/795 (https://www.genetics.org/content/197/3/795)
"In a nutshell, we suggest that initial selection for tameness leads to reduction of neural-crest-derived tissues of behavioral relevance, via multiple preexisting genetic variants that affect neural crest cell numbers at the final sites, and that this neural crest hypofunction produces, as an unselected byproduct, the morphological changes in pigmentation, jaws, teeth, ears, etc. exhibited in the DS. "
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: librarian on May 11, 2021, 08:36:09 AM
Beebe, according to Weston Price head shape (cranial narrowing) and consequent crowding of teeth and squeezing of nasal passages will follow a change in diet toward refined foods. I heard from an oldtimer Galloway breeder and feeder that feeding grain eventually results in long heads. Think about the loss of the wide grazing muzzle and this does seem possible. Also confinement prevents the animal from exercise, rendering a wide muzzle to facilitate oxygen intake and deep heart girth for lung capacity...barrel for rumin capacity etc etc as weak selection pressures. Standing quietly, devotion to feeding rather than breeding behavior, not getting excited and general dampening of the adrenal system are selection pressures for domestication.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: oakview on May 11, 2021, 09:23:28 AM
I will take tame cattle any day.  I believe there is a very high correlation between "tameness" and the environment the animal is placed in.  (namely, the people they're exposed to)
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: -XBAR- on May 11, 2021, 02:49:48 PM
Yeah that’s a terrible representation ridiculous they put a black nose on the cover
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: Dale on May 11, 2021, 04:52:00 PM
https://www.heritageshorthorn.org/cattle-viewpoints/tag/Shorthorn+Black+noses (https://www.heritageshorthorn.org/cattle-viewpoints/tag/Shorthorn+Black+noses)

Black noses do not sunburn.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: librarian on May 11, 2021, 05:52:43 PM
A good question is whether the wild type red allele exists in Shorthorn. In Galloway, for instance, an animal that expresses wild type red will have a muzzle so dark that it appears black. The same coloration is seen in Red Angus. On cows, there will also be very dark hair around the muzzle and on the head and chest of males, especially during breeding season. I think most of us have seen these dark muzzles. I think the dark mulberry color of old fashioned roans is also an expression of wild type red alleles. No proof that I know of, just an opinion.
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: Dale on May 12, 2021, 04:47:40 PM
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/black-noses-on-shorthorn/15/ (http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/black-noses-on-shorthorn/15/)
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: knabe on May 13, 2021, 08:08:07 AM
Great article.

It’s obvious to pick on shorthorns for bw.

The “cute head” is another deal.

To me, they are like the runts of the litter.

It would be interesting to know from a development perspective why that happens in all animals.

Neoteny, domestication syndrome. I read a lot about this when I was studying the lineback color pattern. It also applies to white heifer disease.
https://www.genetics.org/content/197/3/795 (https://www.genetics.org/content/197/3/795)
"In a nutshell, we suggest that initial selection for tameness leads to reduction of neural-crest-derived tissues of behavioral relevance, via multiple preexisting genetic variants that affect neural crest cell numbers at the final sites, and that this neural crest hypofunction produces, as an unselected byproduct, the morphological changes in pigmentation, jaws, teeth, ears, etc. exhibited in the DS. "
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: mark tenenbaum on May 15, 2021, 03:56:34 PM
[url]http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/black-noses-on-shorthorn/15/[/url] ([url]http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/black-noses-on-shorthorn/15/[/url])
/// Hey Dale remember the Black Nose Margie of Aldens? She was one the better ones that came along Dont remember if she was an Improver but she was very close to the original Shannon Margie who may also have had Galloway-and certainly began a line of Shorthorns that are least as relevant today as 45 plus years ago  O0
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: Dale on May 16, 2021, 03:21:49 PM
I recall hearing of her and probably saw her at the NAILE?  An Improver according to DigitalBeef.

Another Margie from the same family was also flushed a lot--AF SHANNON MARGIE 924.   
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: mark tenenbaum on May 16, 2021, 06:52:43 PM
924 was probably the most important well known one by far But i saw a Dividends impact x Black nose female in Texas that was a real sow around 1993 WAY AHEAD OF HER TIME O0
Title: Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
Post by: oakview on May 17, 2021, 09:21:48 AM
Torgerson's white with a black nose Pearl (sired by Clark) was long before that.  1975 I think.  She did a ton of winning.  We had an occasional black nosed Shorthorn back in the 60's.  Nothing new.