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Offline Dale

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2021, 04:52:00 PM »

Offline librarian

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2021, 05:52:43 PM »
A good question is whether the wild type red allele exists in Shorthorn. In Galloway, for instance, an animal that expresses wild type red will have a muzzle so dark that it appears black. The same coloration is seen in Red Angus. On cows, there will also be very dark hair around the muzzle and on the head and chest of males, especially during breeding season. I think most of us have seen these dark muzzles. I think the dark mulberry color of old fashioned roans is also an expression of wild type red alleles. No proof that I know of, just an opinion.
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Offline Dale

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Offline knabe

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2021, 08:08:07 AM »
Great article.

Its obvious to pick on shorthorns for bw.

The cute head is another deal.

To me, they are like the runts of the litter.

It would be interesting to know from a development perspective why that happens in all animals.

Neoteny, domestication syndrome. I read a lot about this when I was studying the lineback color pattern. It also applies to white heifer disease.
https://www.genetics.org/content/197/3/795
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2021, 03:56:34 PM »
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/black-noses-on-shorthorn/15/
/// Hey Dale remember the Black Nose Margie of Aldens? She was one the better ones that came along Dont remember if she was an Improver but she was very close to the original Shannon Margie who may also have had Galloway-and certainly began a line of Shorthorns that are least as relevant today as 45 plus years ago  O0

Offline Dale

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2021, 03:21:49 PM »
I recall hearing of her and probably saw her at the NAILE?  An Improver according to DigitalBeef.

Another Margie from the same family was also flushed a lot--AF SHANNON MARGIE 924.   

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2021, 06:52:43 PM »
924 was probably the most important well known one by far But i saw a Dividends impact x Black nose female in Texas that was a real sow around 1993 WAY AHEAD OF HER TIME O0

Offline oakview

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2021, 09:21:48 AM »
Torgerson's white with a black nose Pearl (sired by Clark) was long before that.  1975 I think.  She did a ton of winning.  We had an occasional black nosed Shorthorn back in the 60's.  Nothing new. 

Offline justintime

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2021, 11:24:36 PM »
Glamis Benefactor was imported from Scotland and he not only had a black nose, but he had black pigment all over is body. His hair was mainly red but a lot of his skin was black and some of his hair was as well. There was many black nosed animals in the Scottish cattle. One of the last bulls I remember being imported wss named Drynie Argosy. He was  red and white in color which was  not well accepted in the 1960s and he also had a pitch black nose. Louie Latimer from Remitall Cattle Co,, Olds Alberta said that he thought Argosy was one of the best bulls he had seen in several years despite his color and his black nose. He bought him anyways for the improvement he would bring.
Many of the Irish cattle that came over in the 70s and 80s also produced some black noses.
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Offline knabe

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2021, 04:07:04 PM »
what are shorthorn purists, for lack of a better word, so worried about with black?


cataloging it on a phenotype?  slippery slope of color types? 


they are otherwise shorthorns?


i mean, seriously, they should genotype the whole herd, and get rid of anything with holstein, maine's, who knows what else.


all breeds are like this. all of them.
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Offline -XBAR-

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2021, 06:44:14 PM »
what are shorthorn purists, for lack of a better word, so worried about with black?


cataloging it on a phenotype?  slippery slope of color types? 


they are otherwise shorthorns?


i mean, seriously, they should genotype the whole herd, and get rid of anything with holstein, maine's, who knows what else.


all breeds are like this. all of them.

I dont know of any other breed like this that has no phenotypical standards or defining breed characteristics.   Shorthorn is the only association of any red hided breed I know of that even allows black noses to be registered.   Disqualification in every Shorthorn registry in the word- not the ASA theyll take your money.    I raised a hell of a black nose calf.  Even used him after Oakview saying he had a black nose bull that didnt throw any dark nosed calves.   My experience hasnt been so fortunate.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 06:46:51 PM by -XBAR- »

Offline knabe

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2021, 10:31:33 AM »
what does a black nose imply?


what breed other than shorthorn is it supposed to come from?


chi, angus, other?


or is it a birth mark.


a few new colors in horses have been described lately.


maybe it's no big deal.


shorthorns have short horns.  maybe that's enough of a description?





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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2021, 11:19:04 AM »
Probably the other way around-There is Shorthorn DNA in every Angus animal no matter how diluted and the black gene generally makes an x bred calf black or variations or red And if you HAVE A GOOD ONE ITS A GOOD ONE-commercial people dont give a rats a@$%^*()s about nose color-and neither do I if the burger or steak tastes good  O0

Offline oakview

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2021, 10:07:34 AM »
On the top ten list of selection factors for my herd, a black nose would be about 25th. 

Offline knabe

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Re: The cover of Shorthorn Country
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2021, 12:12:16 PM »
black noses better with regard to sunburn.
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