Think PHA only comes from Clubby Shorts Famous Closed Herd 50 yr Pedigree

mark tenenbaum · Jan 30, 2018

https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=4082791&member_id= AR CHEROKEE 134 B ENTIRE PEDIGREE IS FROSTY ACRES so it goes back 50 or more years AT LEAST: HES -PHA HOMOZYGOUS Hate to break it to you-no opinions rendered,but it just isn"t a perfect world for purests,anachronisms, or steer jocks alike O0

neocattleman · Jan 30, 2018

I guess I'm a little confused how an animal can be a pha homozygous carrier because isn't that lethal genetic defect so wouldn't that mean he would have been born dead or died shortly after? Or am I missing something?

mark tenenbaum · Jan 30, 2018

neocattleman said:
I guess I'm a little confused how an animal can be a pha homozygous carrier because isn't that lethal genetic defect so wouldn't that mean he would have been born dead or died shortly after? Or am I missing something? /// He produced for years-just take the time to look him up-My understanding is that anything born out of him is also PHA- no hit or miss

beebe · Jan 30, 2018

mark tenenbaum said:
neocattleman said:

I guess I'm a little confused how an animal can be a pha homozygous carrier because isn't that lethal genetic defect so wouldn't that mean he would have been born dead or died shortly after? Or am I missing something? /// He produced for years-just take the time to look him up-My understanding is that anything born out of him is also PHA- no hit or miss

Click to expand...

Then there must be a family tree going forward that has at least carriers. Is there?

knabe · Jan 31, 2018

Without further information, it has to be an error.

mark tenenbaum · Jan 31, 2018

As far as the source the only cattle that got changed per se that long ago were the Scotch Cattle chasing pony size frames-maybe they got crossed with something-He was tested in 2015 so I would venture a guess its accurate O0

mark tenenbaum · Jan 31, 2018

mark tenenbaum said:
As far as the source the only cattle that got changed per se that long ago were the Scotch Cattle chasing pony size frames-maybe they got crossed with something-He was tested in 2015 so I would venture a guess its accurate He would be over 18 years old today-so they must have busted a straw of semen to test him O0

knabe · Jan 31, 2018

mark tenenbaum said:
As far as the source the only cattle that got changed per se that long ago were the Scotch Cattle chasing pony size frames-maybe they got crossed with something-He was tested in 2015 so I would venture a guess its accurate O0

if so, prob be the first homozygous lethal defect animal to sire calves, two in fact, that have probable on their status. this would make the literature news if true.

mark tenenbaum · Jan 31, 2018

My understanding is that Homozygous means that its definitely going to be passed on to progeny there are tons of PHA cattle-the trainwreck occurs when you breed PHA to PHA-1: He sired quite a few calves over a stretch of time 2: Frosty Acres documented their cattle so it would show in the disposition of his progeny if they came PHA-died at birth etc O0

knabe · Jan 31, 2018

mark tenenbaum said:
My understanding is that Homozygous means that its definitely going to be passed on to progeny there are tons of PHA cattle-the trainwreck occurs when you breed PHA to PHA-1: He sired quite a few calves over a stretch of time 2: Frosty Acres documented their cattle so it would show in the disposition of his progeny if they came PHA-died at birth etc O0

the current understanding is that this is a lethal defect, so if homozygous, calf is born dead and can not pass it on to offspring because a dead calf can't procreate.

it would be hugely amazing if this calf were alive after 1 day, and a huge scientific news story.

i sent info to association

mark tenenbaum · Jan 31, 2018

Is that the case with DS as well? There are a number of DS Homo etc bulls out there with lots of progeny running around-they test DS positive but are not born deformed-I have one out of Assasin-and shes DS pos so just breed her clean-Hes homozygous-shes sound as can be O0

knabe · Jan 31, 2018

Maybe it was supposed to be entered for that and it’s just a clerical error.

Medium Rare · Jan 31, 2018

knabe said:
Maybe it was supposed to be entered for that and it’s just a clerical error.

For some dumb reason, the ASA "assigned" this status to some old bulls on various defects. Normally they were older than this bulls is though. I don't remember why they originally did it, but it would take a call to the association to figure out if this is one of them.

RyanChandler · Jan 31, 2018

This is an error.. I remember OKotoks stating similiar issue on database with one of their dated bulls--

aj · Jan 31, 2018

I was thinking that you could have a homo DS carrier alive.

aj · Jan 31, 2018

And that ds symptoms didn't get real bad UNLESS the PHA deal was also involved.....in which a certain amount of synergy occured.

RyanChandler · Jan 31, 2018

aj said:
I was thinking that you could have a homo DS carrier alive.

Yea but that’s only with a fabricated condition like DS

mbigelow · Jan 31, 2018

Medium rare is correct that on some older bulls the ASA assigned defect status to some bulls to test the system. There are some that still have not been changed. I believe this issue was remedied a couple of years ago so this case has me baffled. Unlike DS (a non lethal condition) PHA is lethal 100% when homozygous so, i agree with knabe this would be news.

RyanChandler · Jan 31, 2018

Things like this have to be brought up continuously to the association as their is absolutely no oversight by the association whatsoever. I just noticed that a bull of mine JSF Maestro has had the asterisk added back to his pedigree for the third time now. The two previous times before it was ‘dropped,’ I presented bulls with identical breeding that were recorded as non asterisk. Both JsF Prestige 8U and JSF/RB proud Jake 49U— Now I believe he should be an asterisked bull, but so long as others of comparable breeding have no asterisk, I’m going to bring to their attention the inconsistency. Additionally, there’s no Jake’s proud Jazz son in the database that should not carry an asterick. See how many you can count. The selective designation, despite time and time again of notice, gives insight as to what the current ASA management is all about.

knabe · Jan 31, 2018

-XBAR- said:
The selective designation, despite time and time again of notice, gives insight as to what the current ASA management is all about.

or the inability of the database programmers to come up with code that correctly each field consistently or create fields consistently and fill them consistently etc etcasdf

Think PHA only comes from Clubby Shorts Famous Closed Herd 50 yr Pedigree

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