understanding ultrasound data

What does the ratio of back fat to marbling suggest? I am guessing high marbling relative to backfat would be good for grass finishing? Or would high in both be better when comparing yearling bulls? Looking for early maturity.

The best marbling aren't the best for grass finishing so I would say it's the higher back fat cattle that are going to be your easier fleshing, earlier finishing cattle. Herefords are a classic example: Hardy cattle known for their back fat but below average marbling.  Wagyu or Jersey: pretty hard doing cattle w/ minimal back fat but the highest marbling. 

XBAR hit the nail on the head.  In general, early maturing cattle grassfed types will not have high marbling but will have higher back fat.  As a rule marbling increases with age so the breeds that posses the best carcass traits are the ones that can stay on feed longer without becoming over-fat and suffering yield losses.  Those types are ill-suited to grass fed scenarios in general.

Of course I'm speaking in generalities.  There are some outliers.

I guess that was what confused me. I am looking at Galloway data and there are some with high marbling and low back fat. Others in the set were high in both. I thought marbling went in last, so it seems they must have saturated on external fat early. I need some wooly rhino data to compare it to, I guess.
Maybe this is the reason Galloway x Hereford works well on grass.

librarian said:

I guess that was what confused me. I am looking at Galloway data and there are some with high marbling and low back fat. Others in the set were high in both. I thought marbling went in last, so it seems they must have saturated on that early. I need some wooly rhino data to compare it to, I guess.
Maybe this is the reason Galloway x Hereford works well on grass.

Click to expand...

What Galloway data are you looking at?  The ultrasound results the AGBA has taken at the NWSS are of cattle fed  very differently.  Some have had show feed for quite some time, and some are shown fairly green with little to no grain.
The Galloway breed tends to work well on grass, with marbling and minimal backfat by 18-24 months.  This is what I hear from other breeders and customers, as we do not grass finish.

The Galloway crossed with every breed makes good cattle. <cowboy>

Picture is of a grass fed Galloway Sirloin steak.

It was just data on a small set of bulls from a breeder. So it was relative differences within the group. I was interested in whether those that topped the list for marbling while being at the bottom of the list for back fat might tend to finish EXTRA fast on grass.
All your remarks match my experience with grass finishing Galloway crosses .
The main problem with grass finishing is time. It's hard to do it without feeding thru a second winter, so the ability of the Galloways to truly finish under 2 years increases the profit margin quite a bit.
The meat really does look like that, and that is a SIRLOIN steak. The ribeyes are decadent.

Librarian. Really what you are looking for are early maturing animals that fit your production system that involves grass. 90%+ of the cattle we produce over here are on grass using the same mainstream US genetics commonly found in ranches and feedlots. These cattle perform well finishing and growing and hitting grid targets. For us cattle which are to early maturing fall short in reaching grid targets. I realise we can grow grass 10 months of the year and do not have climate restraints you do but for us the grass finishing priniciples and selection criteria are the same for cattle weather grass or feedlot just slightly slower on grass.

Grid targets like hanging weight? So an animal that matures early, do to the fact that it stops growing it's frame sooner , gets discounted on weight even if it grades well?
At what age do the cattle there go to market? What is the target weight ?
Even if the genetics are mainstream, generations of selection for performance on grass has maybe affected the expression of those mainstream carcasses quality genes at lower inputs?
I am trying to breed ahead for a market that I see coming quickly. That market is for feeders and stockers for grass finishing farms-almost like grass feedlots. Already the buyers for these operations are pushing for higher weights but they want carcass quality in minimum time.  My own experience is that ground beef pays the rent so what usually happens is a mainstream type animal gets sent before it is ripe, but at least it weighs up. Galloway crossed on mainstream, especially Angus, sort of hits the middle.

-XBAR- said:

The best marbling aren't the best for grass finishing so I would say it's the higher back fat cattle that are going to be your easier fleshing, earlier finishing cattle. Herefords are a classic example: Hardy cattle known for their back fat but below average marbling.  Wagyu or Jersey: pretty hard doing cattle w/ minimal back fat but the highest marbling.

Click to expand...

How would you classify cattle that get a little fat around the tail early in life? Like at weaning at 7 months of age on grass and moms milk.  Would that be well marbled?

Depends if that pone fat starts to build up before or after there's rib cover.  The higher marbling types are more likely to be in the before group; the easier fleshing cattle in the after group.

librarian said:

Grid targets like hanging weight? So an animal that matures early, do to the fact that it stops growing it's frame sooner , gets discounted on weight even if it grades well?
At what age do the cattle there go to market? What is the target weight ?

Click to expand...

The packer I buy for operates a grid on two levels.
1/ Weight and fat sorry I will have to talk in metric weight, optimum carcase 260 to 360 kg and fat 9 to 15 mm and 0 to 2 teeth. Cattle that are usually 18 months to 2 years.
2/ The big premium is cattle to grade MSA (Meat Standards Australia) where a number of factors that impact eating quality come in to play. The link is a bit of heavy going but it explains if you follow links how our market works http://www.mla.com.au/Marketing_red_meat/Guaranteeing_eating_quality/Meat_Standards_Australa.aspx Having cattle hit this means a premium of .50 cents a kg

HAB said:

librarian said:

I guess that was what confused me. I am looking at Galloway data and there are some with high marbling and low back fat. Others in the set were high in both. I thought marbling went in last, so it seems they must have saturated on that early. I need some wooly rhino data to compare it to, I guess.
Maybe this is the reason Galloway x Hereford works well on grass.

Click to expand...

What Galloway data are you looking at?  The ultrasound results the AGBA has taken at the NWSS are of cattle fed  very differently.  Some have had show feed for quite some time, and some are shown fairly green with little to no grain.
The Galloway breed tends to work well on grass, with marbling and minimal backfat by 18-24 months.  This is what I hear from other breeders and customers, as we do not grass finish.

The Galloway crossed with every breed makes good cattle. <cowboy>

Picture is of a grass fed Galloway Sirloin steak.

Click to expand...

The sight of that steak is making my mouth water!

librarian said:

Grid targets like hanging weight? So an animal that matures early, do to the fact that it stops growing it's frame sooner , gets discounted on weight even if it grades well?
At what age do the cattle there go to market? What is the target weight ?
Even if the genetics are mainstream, generations of selection for performance on grass has maybe affected the expression of those mainstream carcasses quality genes at lower inputs?
I am trying to breed ahead for a market that I see coming quickly. That market is for feeders and stockers for grass finishing farms-almost like grass feedlots. Already the buyers for these operations are pushing for higher weights but they want carcass quality in minimum time.  My own experience is that ground beef pays the rent so what usually happens is a mainstream type animal gets sent before it is ripe, but at least it weighs up. Galloway crossed on mainstream, especially Angus, sort of hits the middle.

Click to expand...

I can't stress how much I agree with Aussie here.  So many people have convinced themselves they need these ultra capacious squatty stereotypical grass fed phenotype and it's just not true.

UNLESS you have very poor grass, which is seldom the case anywhere in the eastern part of this country, you are doing yourself a disservice by selecting for cattle that over consume and under perform.  The whole idea behind selecting for large internal capacity is so that an animal can physically consume enough low quality forage to put on weight.  In an environment where the forage quality is not low, these type of cattle undoubtedly over consume and under utilize the nutrients they intake.  They put on TRIM fat too early in relationship to muscle and because they have so much waste (guts) , their dressing % is reduced drastically (offal ratios) This is the primary reason these cattle are discounted on weight.  Their quality premium doesn't even come close to offsetting the yield discount they receive.