Last fall, we saw a heifer calf get bred by the bull so we gave her a shot of lute. Now that she's a yearling and in with the heifer bull, she won't cycle and does not appear to have been rode. Twice before, we luted a heifer for the same reason and both heifers never bred up as a yearling. Did we give the lute too early? Also all the other heifers are getting bred that are in the same pen. Thanks in advance!
Using Lute
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We have not preg checked the heifer yet. We gave the lute to the one heifer right after she was covered by the bull. We also come to think of it, gave lute to another heifer as a calf last fall because we expected the bull covered her. Neither have been ridden by the bull that we have seen. The bull got turned in April 20th. We have seen the bull cover the other 20+ heifers.
The method of action for Lute is regression of the Corpus Leteum. You have to have a developed CL for it to work. When implantation occurs the CL will develop to produce progesterone and maintain the pregnancy. After fertilization you have to give the CL a chance to develop so that you have a target organ for the Lute to work on.
In this case the half life of the Lute had expired before the CL was developed. Therefore the drug was gone when the CL started producing Progesterone.
I am guessing she is bred.
In this case the half life of the Lute had expired before the CL was developed. Therefore the drug was gone when the CL started producing Progesterone.
I am guessing she is bred.
Thanks again. I'm just scratching my head and the only common denominator amongst the 4 heifers (two from two years ago and the two in question now) is they all got a shot of lute around 3 to 5 days after possibility getting bred as a calf. We'll preg check these two in Sept and hopefully they're bred.Steve123 said:
I'm with Steve123 - betting they're bred- and that's why they're not cycling.
Pregnancy has always been one of the main hindrances to catching heifers in heat to breed them...
There is no reason to think or to believe that a dose of Lutalyse/Estrumate is going to do anything to 'damage' a heifer and prevent her from cycling or breeding.
Those prostaglandin products merely cause regression of the CL - just like the naturally-produced prostaglandins do... but they've got to be at least 5 days (and better - more like 7-11) days out from ovulation before you have a CL that is 'mature' enough for the prostaglandins to act upon.
For an early abortion, like in the first month or two, dexamethasone is unnecessary - and really has no beneficial or additive effect. But, if you get into trying to abort a pregnancy that's 5-6 months or more along... you'll need the dex.
Pregnancy has always been one of the main hindrances to catching heifers in heat to breed them...
There is no reason to think or to believe that a dose of Lutalyse/Estrumate is going to do anything to 'damage' a heifer and prevent her from cycling or breeding.
Those prostaglandin products merely cause regression of the CL - just like the naturally-produced prostaglandins do... but they've got to be at least 5 days (and better - more like 7-11) days out from ovulation before you have a CL that is 'mature' enough for the prostaglandins to act upon.
For an early abortion, like in the first month or two, dexamethasone is unnecessary - and really has no beneficial or additive effect. But, if you get into trying to abort a pregnancy that's 5-6 months or more along... you'll need the dex.
I hope you all are right and both got rode at night because we're checking ever 2 hrs from 5:30am until 8:00pm to see who is cycling and writing it down. When we check were checking for rubbed out tail hair and mud on the hips that coincide with being rode. It has been really muddy here.Lucky_P said:
RyanChandler
Well-known member
You sure they didn't can they didn't conceive last fall and have been bred since?
We saw both heifers two years ago get rode as calves that fall. We gave a shot of lute about 3 to 5 days later. Neither calved in the following spring. Neither also got bred by the bull as yearlings and were declared open by a vet.-XBAR- said:
This last fall, we saw another heifer calf being rode by the bull and suspected that a 2nd heifer got rode too. Both got lute. Neither are showing to be heavy bred and would have calved within a month if they would have been bred. We put the bull in on April 20th and like I said he haven't seen either get bred or show any signs of coming in.
We're checking about every two hours because we going past the heifer pasture to check on the mature cows to see if they are cycling so we can AI them. We don't AI the heifers. We just put them in with the heifer bull for their first breeding and calving.
We are seeing from you all responses that maybe we're over thinking it and it's just a coincidence that the only heifers that ended up open after a breeding season were the ones that got lute as calves. We were wondering since the lute is a hormone that it fouled those heifers. We'll preg check at the end of Sept.
When a cow or heifer ovulates a small blood spot will occur where the egg is released on the ovary. This is called a corpus hemorrhagicam and withing 5-8 days it turns into a fully functional corpus luteum. The corpus luteum is responsible for producing progesterone and maintaining the early pregnancy. If the animal does not become pregnant the corpus luteum will naturally regress about day 16-18 of the estrus cycle and she will be in heat 2-4 days later. Lutylase or estrumate causes the corpus luteum to regress. The heifer would have to be at least 5 days post heat for it to even work. I have had very poor luck giving lutylase at day 5 or 6, most cattle need a 7 day old corpus luteum to respond to lutylase. The half life of lutylase is only a few hours, so proper timing is important.
As the pregnancy grows the placenta produces more and more progesterone (pregnancy maintaining hormone). By late gestation the placenta is the main source of progesterone. This is where the dexamethasone is needed. It stops the placenta from producing progesterone. Dexamethasone is really only needed in the second and third trimester to terminate a pregnancy.
Long story short giving lutylase to a 5-9 month old short bred (less than 2 months) heifer should have no effect on her future breeding. More than likely if you gave lutylase 3-5 days post breeding, she is probably still pregnant. Cattle that are aborted that are more than 3 months in calf can be very difficult to get bred back.
As the pregnancy grows the placenta produces more and more progesterone (pregnancy maintaining hormone). By late gestation the placenta is the main source of progesterone. This is where the dexamethasone is needed. It stops the placenta from producing progesterone. Dexamethasone is really only needed in the second and third trimester to terminate a pregnancy.
Long story short giving lutylase to a 5-9 month old short bred (less than 2 months) heifer should have no effect on her future breeding. More than likely if you gave lutylase 3-5 days post breeding, she is probably still pregnant. Cattle that are aborted that are more than 3 months in calf can be very difficult to get bred back.
They are hard to 'knock out' once they get 6 months or so along...
I had a group of 1st calf heifers about 5-6 years back that calved out in Spring and milked down so bad that almost none of them bred back. Palpating them.... open, open, open... last one through the chute... was so thin that I said, "There is no way that thing is bred; I'm not even gonna bother palpating her."
Rolled them to the Fall breeding herd. That last heifer never would come into heat. Hit her with Estrumate; nothing. Set her up with a CIDR and Estrumate when we pulled the CIDR; nothing.
Looked out one Sunday morning to see her nursing a little black heifer calf...subsequently named 'Miracle'.
I had a group of 1st calf heifers about 5-6 years back that calved out in Spring and milked down so bad that almost none of them bred back. Palpating them.... open, open, open... last one through the chute... was so thin that I said, "There is no way that thing is bred; I'm not even gonna bother palpating her."
Rolled them to the Fall breeding herd. That last heifer never would come into heat. Hit her with Estrumate; nothing. Set her up with a CIDR and Estrumate when we pulled the CIDR; nothing.
Looked out one Sunday morning to see her nursing a little black heifer calf...subsequently named 'Miracle'.
Lutalyse is a prescription drug. I can't believe your vet sold it to you without instructing you on its proper use. As an abortant, you need to wait 10-14 days after breeding. That heifer is bred, even if you don't think she looks like it. Do the math - when was she bred? You say fall. She could calve anytime from mid-June to September. I wouldn't expect you to visually see that she's bred if she's going to calve in July or August.
