What criteria do use you use to select donor cows

I have never agreed with using heifers for donors. It seems to me until you have seen the heifer's udder and production ability a person should wait. We often flush older cows but recently I heard someone using an older cows age as a reason not to buy embryos,that seemed a little backwards to me.

the only counter talk involving not flushing old cows- is the fact that they are old, and mostly behind in times- especially considering their genetics are from the yesteryear and are not the latest and greatest...

not that that's a bad thing...

If I were looking for embryos and I had the choice between a 2 year old and a 10 year old cow, I would go for the older cow. If she producing at 10 that means to me that she has proven herself in the breeders herd and she has been able to breed back consistently, something you like to see in your future breeding stock.  So I would say she is on top of the genetic pile, because she is working and making money yesterday, today and tomorrow. I personally also perfer a bull from an older cow, because longevity runs parrallel to easier keeping, better doing cows.

Good question Okotoks. Personally I like the older cow I think it is good to see daughters in production and sons walking cows. I have a real problem with flushing heifers for two reasons.
The first is the figures argument. ie.This heifer is the lastest and greatest genetics see has some unbelievably good figures a must have. More often than not the pedigree is unproven and the figures are low accuracy. It is a big genetic gamble.
The second is many heifers look good while young and dressed up. Alot like some of the girls we went out with when young all pretty and done up but meet their mother and think that will be you in twenty years......Run. Very hard to judge the  true breeding merit of animal to after a few calves.
I am sure with HD 50K arguments can be made for flushing heifers but to me the proof is in the pudding.

Aussie said:

The second is many heifers look good while young and dressed up. Alot like some of the girls we went out with went young all pretty and done up but meet their mother and think that will be you in twenty years......Run.

Click to expand...

(lol) (lol) (lol) I can't beliieve you wrote that!!! So glad my husband didn't read it or I would have to listen to some smart ass comment ;D

vanridge said:

Aussie said:

The second is many heifers look good while young and dressed up. Alot like some of the girls we went out with went young all pretty and done up but meet their mother and think that will be you in twenty years......Run.

Click to expand...

(lol) (lol) (lol) I can't beliieve you wrote that!!! So glad my husband didn't read it or I would have to listen to some smart ass comment ;D

Click to expand...

I lived and breathed that for a while... until I realized they were all just for fun anyways.. (pop) (angel)

I'm about to do some ET work on a few cows and have two 10 year old cows and 6 year old picked out. The reason they made the list is years of proven production.I don't think I'd consider flushing a female until she had at least 3 great calves.

Anyway, great cows are never out of style.

Well, if it was me............and this is just a opinion. I cant see waisting the time and money flushing a unproven cow. Minnie Bradley of R3 Ranch I believe in Texas said she wont flush a cow until she is at least 10. I guess that has stuck with me and I am a firm believer in that. But, thats not flashy and cool and its very time consuming. Flushing a cow can be very tricky and every cow is different. I would rather could a good inventory of calves on the ground producing and see what I got before I risk the exspense. Im sure others have a different opinion.

I agree that flushing is better when the cow is older. One thing is, you don't want to screw up the hormones and fertility of the young heifer. What I look for in a donor is her production possiblities and consistency. Does the cow have the potential to give you the best calves you can make when flushed to the right bull? I have bought a couple of older donor cows that have already been proven, and agree with earlier comments that the older cows have proven more longevity, fertility, and udder structure through their old age and your customers should look at that when making decisions on embryos or calves they buy from you.

  More than once it has been my experience  that my favorites at replacement selection time were farther down the list after a few years of production.
There are many Thoroughbred breeders who shy away from older stallions and mares as they fear a performance decline,I think there have been some studies on that.Then you get a deal like War Relic who was born at the end of MOW's career as a stud and the whole sire line survived on him.

I agree with using proven older cows as donors. Most of my donors have had at least 3 calves before they are flushed. There have only been a few exceptions. One was a donor who we had a waiting list for embryos and we flushed two daughters who have each had two calves. I'm flushing one donor right now, who has only had 1 calf. She has a great udder and her dam was also a long time donor here.
I know many people flush heifers, but I do not agree with this practice. My ET vets certainly don't recommend it either. I have been told that every time a flush is done there is some damage to her uterine wall. This is part of the reason that many donors who have had several flushes somnetimes cannot hold a pregnancy to term.

r.n.reed said:

  More than once it has been my experience  that my favorites at replacement selection time were farther down the list after a few years of production.
There are many Thoroughbred breeders who shy away from older stallions and mares as they fear a performance decline,I think there have been some studies on that.Then you get a deal like War Relic who was born at the end of MOW's career as a stud and the whole sire line survived on him.

Click to expand...

It is very common practice, for many people, especially concerning using natural sire selection- that in a sire's first crop-- the best, highest quality offspring will be born (ever)-- and if he clicked with that one particular female-- to never rebreed her to him again.  During a sire's second year, they will only mate him to those females which didn't work under him during the first...  After year two, he either worked, or he didn't- and it's time to move on regardless as you now have yearling daughters to breed...

and on to a new sire...

now on my place-- I sure like to take that group of females are rebreed them to that sire for as long as I can- why fix something that's not broken?  This gets me several years of full siblings, which hopefully turn out as female...