Which BULL TO USE??

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Carlson Cattle

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Due to all the harping on me, i am cutting and drying it. Red cow is a heatwave. Black cow is a hannibull. Wanna go the clubby way. Rodgers or lautner bulls. Anyone that still cares how my breeding season goes please post.
 

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obie105

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I will bite... do you know the status of TH or PHA of either cow? You need to know that before going any further because if they are carriers you need a free bull. Did you decide on a goal? How do you want your project to turn out? What are some past things that you have tried? How did it work?
 

OH Breeder

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Both cows are out of terminal bulls. You want show calves. If you are shooting for heifers I would go to a purebred bull. When you cross xx on xx you don't always get consistency. You will have to tell me again why you can't order semen online at one of the other semen companies? They deliver to your house.
 

crown33

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It's about time you used spell check and clean up the grammar.  (clapping)
 

leanbeef

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I've been around cattle all my life, and I've always been interested in matings and pedigrees...what works and doesn't work. We've shown a few, and we sell a show heifer every now and then...our business is mostly commercial bulls and replacement heifers. I get that a lot of people see the industry as very segmented...production cattle, seed stock cattle, commercial cattle, show cattle...but they're all cattle, and the same rules apply to cattle breeding, regardless of which segment you're involved in.

This is my advice to you: Have a game plan. Have a clear and concise direction for your breeding program and focus on what you want to produce. Don't chase the fads or use the bull that won the last big show just because he won the last big show. If you breed to that bull today, reality is there will be a few more big shows before that calf is ever born, and the bull that won today may or may not be popular at all. If he fits your breeding program and you decide to invest in those genetics, be sure it's for reasons that are connected to your goals as a cattle breeder.

I can't take credit for the next part--and this is important...I think I heard this advice on this forum, and I don't remember who said it...I don't even know if that person came up with this himself or if he was quoting somebody else, but the advice stuck, and it's as sound as it gets: Don't try to breed good show cattle...try to show good breeding cattle. If your breeding program is based on creating a show winner, you are spinning your wheels. Instead, know your cow herd, study your lesson, and become a student in the art of cattle breeding. Make it your goal to improve every generation of cattle your raise, and you WILL make progress. It isn't fast, but it is steps in the right direction. And you might accidentally make a show winner or two along the way.

I know that doesn't answer your questions about what bull to use this year on this cow or that cow. Like I said, I'm not a club calf man. I don't like terminally bred cattle at all. I can appreciate a really pretty show steer as much as the next guy, but those cattle are next to impossible for the average breeder to create. And if you're always trying to hit a home run, it can be impossible to get a base hit. It can turn into a game of all or nothing.

I would actually think about an extremely sound, functional Simmental or SimAngus bull on cows like that. There are a bunch out there that have plenty of eye appeal, and Simmental cross is a cross that works like magic on a lot of breeds and kinds. You have a lot of options in terms of production-oriented type, calving ease, soundness of structure, and maternal ability. Especially if this mating results in a heifer, I think you could be way happier with the end result. Just food for thought...
 

leanbeef

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Carlson Cattle said:
what do u suggest for breed bulls? That still have a little clubby to them?

I'm really not the best guy to ask for that advice. Cattle Visions carries a lot of those showy type Simmie bulls, and Lance Ellsworth is good to offer some advice. The more maternally bred bulls will give up a little bone and maybe some butt, but they'll usually add some rib and soften up the middle, and the females will look like females. For my tastes, that's what I would do on these type of cows, but that's just me. The K-Ler Make It Rain bull has proven himself a little...some folks are liking those calves in terms of soundness and eye appeal. I don't have any experience with him, but I've noticed some folks talking about him. I think he'd keep it pretty and improve soundness, just based off what I've heard. You have bulls like Chopper and Cut Above that a lot of people who like the clubby look might point you toward...my point is that you already have the clubby part of the pedigree, and you need to balance that with the production part. I would look for bulls that still have some eye appeal that aren't quite SO clubby looking...Choose a bull that could sire a club calf mama...not a bull that LOOKS LIKE a show steer. Does that make any sense?
 

Gargan

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try "one and only" on them. he is th and pha free and has throwed some good steers and hfrs. JMO
 

leanbeef

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There's a clubby bred bull I really like called Simple Math. He's not as terminally muscled as a lot of these bulls, but I've heard he makes really nice heifers...probably better daughters than steers. And I don't think the steers calves would be culls either. He seems sounder and more real to me than the typical club calf sire. And he's TH and PHA free as well.
 

Quick fire

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Simple math is a nice bull. Throws tons of meat actually, just wish the necks were a little cleaner made. He will moderate too so use on a big cow.
 

obie105

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I know you are younger if you are in 4-hthe or ffa there is usually a county beef leader. Talk with them too. They would be able to see your cattle in person or your ai tech for the area has a good idea alot of times. Everyone will have ideas for you to try but I tend to like the idea of breeding them to a maine or simmi purebred bull that has that clubby look because when your done you could have something to show in breed.
 

CAB

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Carlson, can you get down to the bull studs and take a look @ what's in right now? There are a few really great looking bulls that would possibly work for you. I ran across Sojka's bull Summit and he is a complete rascal. Combustible is out @ Nichols right now and he looks very good IMO. PPL say that Sojka's bull Shelby is very good, but I haven't seen him. Those first 2 bulls that I mentioned are worth seeing if you can get there. Both studs are full right now so it would be a great time to walk through the barns if you can. This way maybe you can see some of the differences for yourself and possibly train your eye as to the kind of bull that you personally may like to try. Good luck.
 

hntwhitetail

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Try Amen on both.... or a pb simmi like Grandmaster or a pb angus bull like Limestone Great Divide....
 

hntwhitetail

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You could also use the Select Sires bull Hairy.  I've gotten some great show heifers out of him.
 

leanbeef

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hntwhitetail said:
Try Amen on both.... or a pb simmi like Grandmaster or a pb angus bull like Limestone Great Divide....

I've loved the look of Great Divide ever since I first saw his picture. I'd love to use him, but his numbers just won't work for what we do. I think he's a GREAT suggestion! One thing that would scare me, though, regardless of what scenario you were using him in is that docility EPD...one of the worst I think I've ever seen! Has anybody had any calves out of him who could comment on that?
 
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