Which BULL TO USE??

Carlson Cattle said:

thank you. I just need to find the rite bulls for them then ill be setting pritty good

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Make sure you breed for plenty of "POWER"!!  <party> <party>

i dont need power.

You know, I didn't realize how many english professors there are in the show cattle world.... (argue). If they were my cows, I would use Yellow Jacket on the red cow. that yellow jacket x heat wave is really popular mating. then it doesnt matter if she is a carrier or not. From the looks of the pic and no snow on the ground, From the picture I would guess the red cow is a carrier. I actually really like your Hannibal cow. That wmw in her makes her valuable to me. I would try Smilin Bob on her (not lautner or rodgers). If you want one of their bulls, I would say I would try Chopper for heifers or Monopoly on her. I know she is bred to him this year, but his calves still win a ton of shows, top a ton of sales, are highly marketable and you could argue he is as consistent as it gets in the clubby world. JMHO

Thank you chopper has had tons of good heifers

leanbeef said:

hntwhitetail said:

Try Amen on both.... or a pb simmi like Grandmaster or a pb angus bull like Limestone Great Divide....

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I've loved the look of Great Divide ever since I first saw his picture. I'd love to use him, but his numbers just won't work for what we do. I think he's a GREAT suggestion! One thing that would scare me, though, regardless of what scenario you were using him in is that docility EPD...one of the worst I think I've ever seen! Has anybody had any calves out of him who could comment on that?

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Very small group, only 2, but they were both quiet and one was in my way all of time while feeding. I have a couple more coming this year.

just need to look at you cow and see the weaknesses and find the bull to fix that

DiamondCattleCo said:

You know, I didn't realize how many english professors there are in the show cattle world.... (argue). If they were my cows, I would use Yellow Jacket on the red cow. that yellow jacket x heat wave is really popular mating. then it doesnt matter if she is a carrier or not. From the looks of the pic and no snow on the ground, From the picture I would guess the red cow is a carrier. I actually really like your Hannibal cow. That wmw in her makes her valuable to me. I would try Smilin Bob on her (not lautner or rodgers). If you want one of their bulls, I would say I would try Chopper for heifers or Monopoly on her. I know she is bred to him this year, but his calves still win a ton of shows, top a ton of sales, are highly marketable and you could argue he is as consistent as it gets in the clubby world. JMHO

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Why do you think she is a carrier?

AAOK said:

Posted this on another thread earlier today. Think it applies here as well. Good Luck with your breeding. Make it always about the Cows.

My mentor in the Show Calf business told me early on that the Cow is much more important than the Bull.  The books will tell you the opposite. History will show you that breeding an exceptional Cow to an average bull will net you an above average Calf. However, breeding a good Cow to an exceptional Bull will most often net you an average Calf.

The most important thing in selecting a sire is to look for the heritable traits needed to improve that cow.  Seek to breed up your cows.   

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The number one breeder of World Champion Halter Horses in the AQHA (grew up showing steers in the Midwest) got where he is today because he has assembled approx. 40 top cookie cutter mares.  He has had a number of stallions over the years yet no matter what he bred those mares to, he raised, showed and sold Champions.  He even "made" some stallions by the quality of his mares.  He didn't do it overnight but he did get there and he's only now in the prime of his life.  He has a good eye,  patience and conviction.

just have to make the rite decitions every year

Carlson Cattle said:

just have to make the rite decisions every year

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Don't think about it like that...that's too much pressure. Think in terms of making SMART decisions for each mating you do and you'll be golden.

thats why i need your guys help. I caint do it by myself

I just don't see it.  I was picking bulls out of the ABS catalog to breed my cow to each year starting when I was age 8.  Even made the short trip to DeForest with my family to see the bulls in the flesh.  At age 14 I picked a bull that changed my show career.  There was no internet.  I looked at trade papers, breed magazines and sire summaries.  I did the research and made my own decisions.  I think "SteerPlanet" is a wonderful tool.  But get off of here and go do some real research.

I do think it can be overwhelming if you try to ask too many people for their input, open the possibilities to every bull that's been collected in the past twenty years, or don't really know where you want to take your breeding program. It's ok to ask for advice or suggestions from folks whose breeding programs you respect and from people who are going the same direction you want to go. If you try to follow other people who are successful in what they do, but who aren't doing the same thing you want to do, you'll end up going in too many directions with no focus at all. My advice is to decide where you want to go with you cattle, look at where you are, and then make smart, educated decisions on the first step that will send you in that direction.

I think input from people here is great as long as you don't try to follow all the advice you get and as long as you're not overwhelmed by the options that people throw at you. I actually keep a list of bulls I'm interested in maybe using at some point...in an Excel spreadsheet, with current EPDs that I update every six months when new data is calculated and our numbers change. When I see a bull I'm really interested in, I add him to the list. If I know I'm never going to use him and I no longer care what he looks like on paper, I take him off. From the list I have, I pull a short list of bulls and run my planned matings using only those. By narrowing the field, it helps me process the information I have in front of me and it simplifies my decisions a great deal. When I have a two or three good solutions, I get to use the one I want just because I want to see what that baby will look like. But it's still a smart decision because the mating went through a process before it ever got done. I'm not gonna say it's not a little bit of work, but I enjoy that part of the business, and it keeps me from having bonehead decisions that lead to wasted time or even worse...serious train wrecks.  I do get a little disappointed when a really popular bull doesn't fit my breeding program, but that's just how it is. He doesn't work, so he doesn't get used.

The more focused your program becomes, the more narrow the field of bulls eligible to participate in that program will become. And the easier your decisions get. I can't say we're always been as deliberate as we are now, and this philosophy hasn't propelled our program into any national spotlight or anything like that, but we've had several people comment on how much better our cattle have gotten in the last ten or fifteen years, and that lets me know we're doing something right.

just like you said i need to pick the bull to chsnge my show career but i dont know what that bull is.....

Carlson Cattle said:

just like you said i need to pick the bull to chsnge my show career but i dont know what that bull is.....

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1.  I got lucky.
2.  I had the cow power.
3.  I did a lot of leg work.
4.  I found a bull I liked that possessed qualities I wanted in my herd.
5  I knew he was special when I saw him (He stood out in my eyes).
6.  It took me 6 years.
7.  I worked hard.
8.  I got lucky.

Not every mating willl be a home run. I have been playing with this game for 15 years now and each year you build a bit more. I have just started to really see a big improvement in my calves the past couple of years. You are way over thinking and probably havent done anything that people have asked!

Start with the basics on what things you want to change. Get a piece of paper and make a list on each cow. Get a list of bulls which I think you have from this site and work on it. Pay attention to carrier status.

Carlson Cattle said:

just like you said i need to pick the bull to chsnge my show career but i dont know what that bull is.....

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I think you are putting way too much pressure on yourself to find the perfect mating. Let me tell you a story: In 2009 I AI'd my heifer to a bull that I beilived would produce "the perfect mating". In 2011, she calved a month later than she was AI'd for, so in other workds, she didn't catch AI and instead she calved to the clean up bull. Before I even saw the calf I was bawling. I was so upset that she wasn't bred to the AI bull, that at first I didn't even want the calf. That's how much pressure I had put on myself. But guess what? I decided to make the best of the situation and put two years of work into her bull calf, showed him, marketed him, and sold him at the National Hereford Sale at Agribition, where he was the high seller. I'm not saying this always happens, but what if I would have not put any work or hope into the bull because he wasn't going to "change my show career"?

We all understand that you are young and want to make it big in the show industry, but as said before, it takes time, work, luck, and a lot of research.  As I commented on another one of your posts, have some confidence in YOU. I'll always remember the time a little girl in my 4-H club excitedly told me that she picked out which Semmital bull to breed her 4-H heifer to. I asked her why she picked him and she said matter-of-factly "I picked him because he's dark red, with big goggles and a white nosepiece that looks like a smile!" She may never have a national champion, but at least at 10 years old, she believes in her breeding program.

I hope you take some time to at least read everyone's advice. Good luck with whoever you end up breeding to!

I LOVE that story...the 2nd one even more than the first one! My dad gave me a heifer calf when I was 8 years old because she was spotted, and I fell in love with her as soon as I saw her in the pasture. As a yearling, he thought she wasn't quite up to par with the other heifers he was keeping, and I remember him telling me that he thought it would be best if we traded--I could have another heifer he was keeping, and feed my heifer with the calves that were gonna be sold. Well, I knew what that meant, and I cried and begged him not to do it. We didn't trade, and I had that cow until she was 13...way after the cow he wanted to give me to replace her!

We all know we don't get lucky every time. Somebody said, "Not every mating will be a home run" and that's just the truth. It does take a little luck now and then, and the way you prepare yourself to BE lucky is by doing your research and becoming invested in the process. Cattle breeding is an art, but like any other type of animal breeding. Some of it is natural and some of it is learned. Know as much as you can know about the cows you have and be smart about each mating. Progress is slow. If you don't have the patience for it, start raising rabbits instead. They multiply much faster!

If you don't know whether your cows are TH or PHA carriers, then don't consider bulls that are carriers. You make progress by taking SOME risks, but you have to know what risks are worth taking and what risks are not. It isn't a bad thing to play it safe sometimes. The more disciplined you are about what you do and the process you use, the smarter the decision will be that you make. And the more rewarding it is when it works. When it doesn't work, you call it a learning experience and you start over again.

Carlson Cattle said:

just like you said i need to pick the bull to chsnge my show career but i dont know what that bull is.....

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Love the stories....but I think it should be said that the bull is only half the equation. Its take a helluva cow to compete at a state/national level.