bloodtyping purity

[aj]

It hit me this morning...as I smiled to myself.Composites. With all the composites out there in almost every breed how will be handled.Maine Anjou? With all the composite maines will there be trouble down the road. Can you bloodtype a Grand Champ purebred bull that was graded up to through the mainetainer program? Can you tell he was 7-8ths maine and 1-8th angus by bloodtyping. Can you tell the difference between this bull and a bull that is half angus-half maine? Is there room for problems. Same with the Simmental. Can you tell the difference between a half simmental and half angus and a 7-8ths simi and 1-8th angus with a dna test? I have heard that Black Angus cattle if truly sampled would bloodtype all over the place. I have heard that back in the 80's that 5 or so "red Maine Anjou" would type acceptably Shorthorn. What about Gelbvieh and Limi-flexs and everything else. What about the Shorthorn deal? With the addition of the Red Angus into the breed can a dna test tell the difference between a bull that is 7-8ths Shorthorn-1-8th Red Angus and a half Shorthorn-half red angus? Not sure it matters unless you get showring people sueing each other over winners but.......looks almost like this could be the next concern in breed board rooms. I would think between breed sharing blood types and etc would become nessecary. Is bloodtype even the right word? Is it dna test now? It almost seems like with the blood testing it would be hard to "pull a fast one" in the showring. Or is the water so muddied now that it will be done. I guess this issue really doesn't affect the club calf deal so much...or does it? Will there be a litmus paper test developed where cattle lick it to see if they can be shown as purebreds? If the paper turns green they are throwed out? Are Angus cattle really non-appendix? Will yaks or buffalo bllod be snuck in? ;D

 

[HAB]

A few years back the American Galloway Breeders Association was approached by then Bovigen.  We were asked to participate in DNA identifying breeds.  I forget what the fee was to participate, but was high enough to discourage our small association from participating.  To my understanding in conversations with Bovigen, was that the DNA breed markers have been identified, they just need mass quantities to verify their findings.  The AGBA requires DNA on all bulls registered, for sire verification.  We, the AGBA were told that Bovigen could determine % of breed or breeds in and individual animal, by it's DNA.

I don't know where they are at with this study at present time.

Harley

 

[JSchroeder]

You don't need composites to muddy the water, there have been Maines that blood typed Angus since the 90s.

 

[knabe]

no one needs to pay bovigen anything.  they should be paying everyone to acquire samples.

think about it.  they are going to develope a test that you paid to participate in and then CHARGE you to use their test.  to me, that's tantamount to taking germplasm from africa, human or plant, and then telling them bovigen will decide how much to charge for it's "use".

to me, this is a strategy to acquire germplasm by getting people to pay them rather than the other way around.  what a complete and TOTAL joke.

what a joke.  i haven't heard anything good by them in a long time and the first "good" stuff is pretty suspect as confirmed with the 50k chip for across breed relevance.

yes, i'm a sad supporter of this technology but it appears to be deployed before it's time.

 

[LostFarmer]

You don't need composites to muddy the water, there have been Maines that blood typed Angus since the 90s.

Say it ain't so!  You mean that someone would take a Maine steer and whoop ass at a angus breed show?  (lol)  That would never happen in the cattle world. 

This post is dripping with sarcasm

 

[aj]

I'm not this stuff affects the club calf deal cause in that world the whole concept is based on deception pretty much anyway. If the technology is available it almost forces breeds to confront the issue.

 

[LazyGLowlines]

I know most of you look down your noses at the Lowlines, but they did start DNA testing back in the 90's and the breed started on a research farm that was closed to everything but Angus for 70 years.  We don't have to worry about any  purity issues now or in the future.

 

[Shady Lane]

Lazy G, this is not meant as an attack of your statement, simply making conversation.

How does the Low Line breed protect it's "purity" compared to any other being from a research farm?

Once the cattle are in the hands of other breeders what stops them from "influencing" the gene pool from outside sources any different than any other breed?

IE

Black Angus cattle are a "pure" breed but have been rumoured to have influential genetics from outside sources, what stops anybody with Low Lines from doing the same thing?

 

[aj]

If you buy a bull on the hill or somewhere........try and draw semen on him...........and he flunks a dna test.........would you have recourse. I'm assuming it would be an outside the association recourse(legal). Just seems like its getting to be a possible problem.

 

[LazyGLowlines]

Lowlines were Champion Angus  bloodlines  imported from the US, Canada and Scotland in 1929 and put on a research farm in New South Wales.
They were managed by researchers  (you know the type ) to improve the Angus herd in NewSouth Wales. They brought in champion bulls from time to time to freshen the blood lines. In the 1970's they closed the herd to outside influences totally and sorted by size, hence Lowline. The herd was dispersed in the early 1990's and was blood typed for the first few years until DNA testing was economically viable then they started DNA testing sire and dam. Now all fullblood lowlines are DNA tested sire and dam to be registered and can be traced back to the original herd.
Not to attack anyone but a friend who is a 3rd generation Angus breeder and raises purebred Angus tells of back in the 70's and 80's when blood typing started  they found that Holstein blood and Angus blood are almost identical. and he swears that Holsteins were bred to Angus for their milking capabilities. All I know is that a lot of the Continental breeds came over as red and are now black.... amazing!!!
All I'm saying is that we (Lowlines) at least started with a  pure Angus bloodline  as possible and I'm not sure there are many pure animals of any breed anymore. So yes there is no way to identify crosses and what percentage they are.

 

[aj]

I personally like smaller framed cattle. I checked out your website and the red lowline program really looks interesting. Looks like to me you may be on to something at the ground floor level that could really grow.Good luck lazy g

 

[LazyGLowlines]

Thanks, AJ. We've been working pretty hard to get the red fullbloods going.  We've got a few clubby cows now sired by Heatwave, Heat Seeker and Sin City, plus a blue roan cow that we've bred to lowline bulls and are anxiously awaiting their calves.  These cows aren't much bigger than our lowlines, just have more leg. We're hoping to get some pretty impressive calves this spring.