hypothedical donor question

[frostback]

Would you flush a purebred cow that would produce seedstock offspring, and not steers, that would try to kill her calves, to the point that she never raised one? No I do not have this situation just thought of it last night checking cows.

 

[kanshow]

Are you talking about her temperment/demeanor when she has a calf? 

If it's the way she acts - I'd be asking myself what was her mom like? 

I might consider it if she were absolutely fantastic - but the thing is, if she's killed all her calves you have no idea what she can produce. 

 

[red]

I probably would not. Temperament to me is very important. I'd be afraid the nut case would pass that on to her offspring. I never tried to flush anything that was a lunatic though. Wonder how she'd do in the chute?

Red

 

[frostback]

Say this cow was very quiet in all other situations but when she calved she took after her calf and would not mother it and would hit it against the walls and such, but being a purebred she has phenomenal numbers and was the best looking cow you have seen.
You do know what she can do because she does get pregnant and gives birth just wont raise her own calf.

 

[red]

still would hesitate. How much of temperment is inherited? That's a good one for Knabe & DL.

Red

 

[kanshow]

How many  chances has this cow had?  Sometimes first calf heifers freak out but then again those dont' get a second chance at our place.   

I guess I'd be hesitant too because I think disposition is a product of genetics and environment - but not sure how much each contributes. 

 

[Jill]

I think I would try it, you don't have anything to lose, temperment is worth a lot, but it doesn't sound like it is the temperment problem.  I would guess if she if fine any other time when she calves it causes some type of chemical imabalance in her system that causes the problems.  Good question

 

[red]

kind of like postpartum syndrome in women?

Red

 

[justintime]

If this cow is normal except when she calves, yes... it is worth a try.... but only if she is a very top quality cow. If she has attitude at other times, I would not consider it.My position on temperment is that there are enough quiet cattle on this planet, so why would I ever mess with something that could hurt someone or her calf. There is one place for this kind.

 

[kanshow]

If you did try it, I'd use recips with excellent dispositions.   

 

[Jill]

If you did try it, I'd use recips with excellent dispositions.     

Well and I guess that is my opinion, many times calves get the temperment from the environment they are raised in, if she is calm any other time than it really isn't a diposition issue, I think you should be fine.

 

[Jill]

I guess to add to that, I would flush her in a heart beat as opposed to letting her have a natural calf again.

 

[dutch pride]

Seeing that the original scenario was that calves would be used to produce seedstock, I would be hesitant unless I was going to retain them myself. Temperament at calving time is a big issue even if they are fine in other situations. I would not feel comfortable to sell someone a heifer from this cow that might inherit this characteristic. I guess if you wanted to try it and put in a couple eggs and then see what those offsping do when the join the breeding herd it would be OK but that is a long time to wait.

DLZ

 

[DL]

Would you flush a purebred cow that would produce seedstock offspring, and not steers, that would try to kill her calves, to the point that she never raised one? No I do not have this situation just thought of it last night checking cows.

Good question Frostback 

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Temperament is a combo of genetics and environment (nature vs nurture) - while you can modify some behaviors with "positive" environment and experiences unless you are Dr B you can't change the genes. This is not only a temperament issue but also a mothering/maternal issue - why would this be a bonus for a seedstock producer. Cows that try to kill their calves should go directly (do not pass go) to slaughter. Propagating this killing behavior is a bad thing for the breed and any poor fool who bought these embryos.

 

[mechanic]

We have a cow here that has 2 daughters in production that calve and give no problems. Last year we lost her calf , upside down and backwards with only a tail coming. I turned her back out with the cows within 20 minutes of cleaning and within 1/2 hour 3 calves were sucking her. This year when she calved every time the calf went to move she would through it in the air with her head. As long as the calf stayed still she would lick and talk to it but as soon as it moved at it she would go. We tied her up and fought with her to let the calf suck and as soon as the calf stood and sucked without help it was like a switch was flipped in her head and her whole attitude changed. I should note that at  no time was she nasty towards us. Would this be a hormone imbalance due to calving? Would you cull her based on this.