LOOK at this Charolaise bull from back then

[librarian]

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ajvy_buieooC&dq=milking%20Shorthorn&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=milking%20Shorthorn&f=true

Knabe, is this what you mean by typey?

 

[knabe]

Yes. By the way, I obviously know the other bull is not Charolais.


Typey to me just means older style before the push to make them look the same phenotypically, which to me, started around the mid 70's

 

[librarian]

Yes, about phylogeny. Obviously my Orc hypothesis was a dead end and I have accepted the status quo on Leader 21, other than to suggest he is"orc type"

The other pictures in this book at really interesting and you can just scroll thru them. I appreciated the Chianina on the following page as week as the Maine Anjou later in the book.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ajvy_buieooC&dq=milking%20Shorthorn&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q=milking%20Shorthorn&f=false
I bet the heterosis was tremendous when they crossed animals with so much character.

 

[knabe]

The chi bull was nice, sort of reminded me of ildeno, the Maine bull not so much, not even remotely similar to vainqueur.

 

[Freddy]

For anyone interested the Charolais  bull is FWT SAM 951  was very popular as were the 4T and Litton cattle were for many years with great disposition ....

TYPEY. their would be many different definitions for this ....Not as much growth ,and the characteristics we look for in faster growing cattle ....They are more frame , length and crossbreeding !!!!!  HOW many of our breed's to day are truly purebred's ....    The market's in VALENTINE ,NE. yesterday might
show a difference in some peoples opinions as far as what type females we need ....

Red Angus heifers weighing 584 brought in a per head check got 2289.00 a female .  Was 500-head of these and they all brought over 2000.00 per head .... RED ANGUS

 

[librarian]

How big would that SAM bull have been?

 

[RyanChandler]

That bull is not representative of any of the early fullbloods I've seen.  Far too moderate for a Char even today, much less then IMO

 

[Freddy]

XBAR -you must be a young pup . The SAM cattle were famous in the 60's and 70's , those bulls were most of them crowding a ton ,and according to the
other breed's they were big ...During this time the Charolais caused quite a stir in the other breed's ,it was wake up time ,there were 700 lb. heifers being calved in the main breeds ,but back in that day  exotic meant their probably a  show going on at the bar ...

 

[Medium Rare]

For anyone interested the Charolais  bull is FWT SAM 951  was very popular as were the 4T and Litton cattle were for many years with great disposition ....

I had to laugh at your disposition comment.

I don't live too far from where the farm was and my father worked for the family a little as a kid.  The story about them getting Sam into the china room for the "bull in the china cabinet" advertisement has always been amusing to me.

 

[Freddy]

Medium Rare I would love to hear that advertisement story .....

 

[mark tenenbaum]

XBAR -you must be a young pup . The SAM cattle were famous in the 60's and 70's , those bulls were most of them crowding a ton ,and according to the
other breed's they were big ...During this time the Charolais caused quite a stir in the other breed's ,it was wake up time ,there were 700 lb. heifers being calved in the main breeds ,but back in that day  exotic meant their probably a  show going on at the bar .../// Im old too-When I was real young I showed at the Eastern National in 65-and the early Charolais were there-massively thick-and alot bigger than the little poney scotch Shorthorn I had-I remember Waukaru had all red horned cattle-and Cyrus Eatons cattle were there too-BUT THE KING-was CB Teegarden-he was the Sullivan of the 60s

 

[librarian]

I couldn't find the ad picture, but here is some stuff about Sam
http://www.grts.org/Litton/lhistory.htm
One way to become well-known in the cattle world is through the show ring, but at this time, there were no classes open to Charolais. The first time they were permitted to take their cattle to the American Royal in Kansas City, they were put in a corner in the basement. After each show, Jerry would write to the people who had visited their booth. One year, to attract attention to their cattle in Kansas City, Jerry hired Playboy bunnies to come to the barn and groom the Litton cattle. Jerry was a promotional genius and Charley was a natural born salesman. They were honest and had a sincere desire to see their customers also succeed. Add to this picture a young bull named Sam, and you have the necessary ingredients for success.

In 1960, the management of the Chicago International Show asked the Littons to bring some animals to exhibit. They took FWT Bar 951 (Sam) and a heifer named for Mildred, Mickey 04. Few people in the midwest had seen Charolais at that time, and the snow-white pair attracted a lot of attention. When classes were finally opened to Charolais, Sam began to distinguish himself in the show ring. He was many times named Grand Champion at prestigious shows (American Royal, Houston Stock Show, Pan-American Exposition, Arizona National, and San Antonio Stock Show). Probably no Charolais bull in America sired more show ring winners than did Sam. For an unprecedented five years straight, Sam 951 captured the coveted senior get-of-sire championship at both the American Royal and the International Exposition. Sam was the world's first 100% Golden Certified Meat Sire. In a one-week period in the spring of 1971, three major bull test stations were topped by bulls sired by Sam or by one of his sons. The Encyclopedia Britannica chose Sam to represent the Charolais breed, and they sent their own photographer to the Litton Ranch to take his picture. Because he was such a complete bull, the Litton Ranch was able to build its entire breeding program around Sam 951. They were able to concentrate his genes in a linebreeding program that still exists. On April 4, 1972, Sam died peacefully in his sleep. He was nearly 13 years old. He was buried in a grassy area in front of his own barn; the air-conditioned, red-carpeted, maple-paneled barn where thousands had come to visit the most famous bull in the world.

 

[librarian]

Does all this Golden Certified Meat sire stuff mean his progeny graded well?
I never heard oh"Golden" certified?
I thought that marbling on Charolaise was something they had to work on for many years to get to where they are today.
I wonder if Ohlde ever tried going back to Sam to make a Smokey Jake?
.

 

[Freddy]

Now that you mentioned the PLAYBOY bunny's I remember that .....Jerry Litton was an amazing promoter and politician until the death of him and his family .... 

 

[IowaKelly]

Freddy,
so refreshing to hear your commentary.  Thank you.  For those who are interested, Sam 951 was (according to my father, who happened to be on the end of the halter in that picture) at 2400 lbs. in that picture.  He was foundational to the Charolais genetics in this country and is a permanent conversation piece in our household.  My father was show manager for LCR in the 60's and we have been privy to many, many stories of the Charolais breed causing quite a storm when they would roll into town.  My dad loves to tell the story of Charlie Litton being so particular about the "white" on his cattle, that he asked that his crew stop about 20 miles prior to rolling into a show and wash (with blueing) and dry the string.  This bull was a true cornerstone and not "typey" at all.  He was heavy structured, soggy middled and good structured.  His progeny went on to sire many, many champions and this is where hybrid vigor came into the modern club-calf industry.  Not sure if Ohlde's steer goes back to Sam, but I wouldn't be surprised.  Sam's decendants, Alfalfa John and Chimo went on to sire some of the first grand champion smokey steers in the U.S.