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Messages - Hopster1000

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31
The Big Show / Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« on: February 05, 2019, 04:45:56 PM »
And the other 2...
There has to be many North American bulls that fit this criteria. Typhoon, Fire Fox and Patent Ace all have North American ancestry.

32
The Big Show / Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« on: February 05, 2019, 04:43:43 PM »
I always heard of the Shorthorn as being "The great improver". Is it not possible to mainly aim for the second option, of having cattle with a good maternal base, but have some terminal traits?
A quick epd search of the uk database gave me 3 bulls I have used that I feel fulfill that. I'll attach photos. Also a search of the Irish database shows another example. These 4 bulls have maternal traits of easy calving, good milk etc but also have high growth, good carcass weight and high ribeye area.

33
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 05, 2019, 10:35:23 AM »
https://shorthorn.org/university-of-illinois-sire-test/


extremely difficult to find much on the university of illinois websites.


web pages are not updated with recent data and you have to click through to find the updates.


not sure where to find what programs are, where the bull test is at which school


all in all, pretty sad websites

Would this be a starting point?

https://shorthorn.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Sire-Test-Update-Matt-April-2018.pdf

34
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 04, 2019, 10:23:14 AM »
Reference on shorthorns being the most tender breed.


I got this December 2014 quote from a Farmers Weekly article.

"The US Department of Agricultures Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) ranks the Beef Shorthorn as one of the best performers in the world in terms of calving ease, average daily gain, marbling and carcass quality.
Research at MARC has shown the Shorthorn to achieve the best 200-day weight of any English breed. Its combination of marbling and cutability is extremely rare and evidence of exceptional carcass quality.
The Beef Shorthorn carries two copies of the GeneSTAR tenderness gene, meaning its meat is tender 97% of the time, compared to 78% in the Angus and 70% in the Hereford."

Cannot find the source for the original data however.

35
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 03, 2019, 12:39:50 PM »
Any pictures?  O0

Found one picture from when she was a year old. Hasn't been tested, but think she must have a myostatin gene, however I didn't think Perfect Storm, Mr Gus 80c or Diamond Captain Mark carried the myostatin deletion?
She is far from perfect, but thought she was one I could work with, especially if she was myostatin free. She calved herself with a 40kg bull calf and had enough milk for a heifer.

36
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 03, 2019, 11:54:26 AM »
The second bull from England has a nice smooth side profile and appears to be pretty thick as in wide from behind-also has some muscle-I thought Uppermill used some Maine a while back which the older bull shows somewhat the way he is made and with his size O0

All the main breeders in the UK used Maine bulls widely when the herd book was first opened to them. It is very hard to find a 100% SH in the UK and Native are very rare.
The Dakota bull is bred from an Australian bull, Broughton Park Thunder, and would have approx 9% Maine through his Upsall dam.   ///// There are some native Whitebreds that I am pretty impressed with and understand they are close to extinction-Have you seen any of these cattle? These pictures are for you or anyone from the Isles to comment upon if you would-because you may have seen them etc

They are very rare, although a very small number are sold at a Spring and Autumn sale in Carlisle each year. What I have seen at those wouldn't be as thick as what the best are in your pictures.
Here is the champion from last spring.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zEw5MMr0dOU

They are still on the endangered list of the Rare Breeds Survival Trust
https://www.rbst.org.uk/Pages/Category/cattle-watchlist

37
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 03, 2019, 11:21:18 AM »
Alta cedar signature 119 will add thickness for sure but we had fertility problems with his daughters. With our experience I would stay away from him.

Have a white heifer cow bred from Perfect Storm out of a Mr Gus cow that is the widest shorthorn I've seen. What I agree with is the fertility is not as good with her as she was the last heifer to get in calf and she now has a much longer calving interval as well.

38
The Big Show / Re: Using an 18 month old bull
« on: February 03, 2019, 10:50:13 AM »
There has been a movement of people selling 18 month old bulls instead of yearlings. The theory is that they can cover more females. But.....cattle loose some teeth at 18 months. Do these bulls get real thin breeding cows because of teeth problems. I bought such a bull who got very thin and I was a little disapointed. But he had 35 cows. I got to wondering if it is a teeth deal.

Id say he just walked himself thin. In my experience a cow coming in to heat likes to walk a lot. Make the bull follow. Ive seen a vet on YouTube claim a cow can walk 10-15 miles just leading the bull around before she stands.

I was always told that the number of cows a bull could manage was equal to the number of months of age of the bull. So for an 18 month old bull that would be 18 cows. Also I find that an older bull won't walk those 10-15 miles after a cow. He'll wait until she's ready, jump once and not bother again.  Don't know how it would work in a situation where several bulls are with a large number of cows.

39
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 01, 2019, 10:23:07 PM »
The second bull from England has a nice smooth side profile and appears to be pretty thick as in wide from behind-also has some muscle-I thought Uppermill used some Maine a while back which the older bull shows somewhat the way he is made and with his size O0

All the main breeders in the UK used Maine bulls widely when the herd book was first opened to them. It is very hard to find a 100% SH in the UK and Native are very rare.
The Dakota bull is bred from an Australian bull, Broughton Park Thunder, and would have approx 9% Maine through his Upsall dam.

40
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 01, 2019, 05:09:44 PM »
Thought I would post a bull from the UK. Bred by the Upsall herd in England and bought by Fearn Farm in Scotland. Dakota Of Upsall.

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=3E373E3D&2=232F5F&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=275C5C265921252421&9=5C5C5E5E

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=794176747365536&id=464311627018718&_rdr

The Facebook video is worth a watch. I know he's not available to North America, but he is thick, has a lot of natural muscle, is considered easy calving and has some of the best figures in the breed. Sadly he's gone now, but he has left a son, Fearn Godfather, an impressive bull also, who Fearn Farm recently bought him back for 20,000.

41
The Big Show / Re: Shorthorn influenced cattle
« on: April 21, 2018, 03:23:43 PM »
As far as I am aware, this is the UK and Irelands only online sale. Definitely for shorthorns anyway. The roan cattle really stand out.

https://www.pedigreesalesonline.co.uk/all-listings/

You should be able to see pictures, videos and the sale results.

42
The Big Show / Re: Using CIDRs to Improve Pregnancy Rates
« on: March 30, 2017, 02:21:25 PM »
Haven't heard about that and personally for the risk of infection and stress on the cows I will not try it.

I used a PRID in a heifer this week for the first time. AI'd on Tues. The semen supplier and a vet both advised to put the PRID back in. Was dubious for your reasons. I did clean it, dry it, seal it in a bag and refrigerate just it in case.

43
The Big Show / Re: Using CIDRs to Improve Pregnancy Rates
« on: March 29, 2017, 12:24:20 PM »
Does reinserting the CIDR or PRID 4 days after the AI and removing it 10 days later make any difference to conception rates? I have only recently heard of people doing this.

44
The Big Show / Re: Changes in your breed......say the last 10-15 years
« on: February 21, 2017, 01:04:20 PM »
To me, the question is....how could looks like a double muscle Shorthorn!
My idea of double muscle is clear, and many bulls saw on 2010 Congress and on the last Shorthorn Sires UK bull catalogue are double muscle!
But what is the limit for this!
Also, in my understanding of a double muscle bulls, all show direct North American ancestors....soo....

I wouldn't agree. The first picture is of probably one of the heavier muscled shorthorns from the recent Stirling sale. The other 3 pictures show double muscled Belgian Blue, Limousin and Charolais. These animals are quite normal in the UK. Do the shorthorns you recall compare to these?
I also think a lot of the North American bulls have been tested free of it.

45
The Big Show / Re: Changes in your breed......say the last 10-15 years
« on: February 19, 2017, 10:53:23 AM »
In the UK, any animal born after a certain date, is not having its percentage shorthorn shown. Very few animals would not be well above 90% with the lesser percentage made up from the Maine Anjou influence. If you wish to work out the exact percentage of these animals it is still easy enough to work from the previous generation. Having said that, the general trend the last few years is for these percentage shorthorns to creep towards the high 90s, pushing toward 100%. This is mainly due to the influence of North American and Australian semen and embryos.

As regards the double muscling, at a development weekend towards the end of the year, it was mentioned, and any animal that's under suspicion of double muscling would need to be genetically tested and could not be registered as pedigree. Many none shorthorn people that see the trend of improving shorthorns and higher prices in the UK are quick to say it's because they are double muscled. I think there is a slight element of jealousy involved in those statements. They are very wrong, as the broader, better muscled cattle have mainly a North American influence and are just different from the traditional, slightly harder doing British shorthorn. They still have good maternal traits and the muscling shown is a softer, easier doing muscle than the lean double muscling.
An example of this would be the cattle bred from a bull called Elloit Matrix. He is an ET son of Star P Matrix and B Good Red Sue. Elliot Matrix is producing well muscled, colourful shorthorns.
Australian bulls like Ingleton C111 and Broughton Park Thunder are also increasing the muscling and rib eye in their off-spring.

As for black or blue shorthorns - they will only ever be commercial stock in the UK and Ireland. There is no equivalent of shorthorn plus. To register a foundation female, she must be inspected to meet the traits and visual requirements of the shorthorn breed and a further 3 generations are then required before they become pedigree.

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