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The Big Show / Re: Hot Commodity & Evolution
« on: October 10, 2019, 09:40:57 AM »
Sull uses this picture of Hot Commodity somewhat regularly.

The Big Show / Re: Has anyone ever crossed a clubby bull w/highland cow??
« on: September 29, 2019, 07:09:20 PM »
I believe there was some form of an attempt at a promotional bull with a percentage of Highland blood in him not too long ago.

With the issues many club calves are having hitting show dates, I'm not sure how you'd make the cross work.

The Big Show / Re: Price point for Bulls in the United States
« on: September 27, 2019, 07:50:47 PM »
If memory serves.....Marty Loving told me his minimum was like 2,700$. That was on bulls that have been on  feed and tested and what not. You can wrap up a lot of feed in a bull if you feed them to a year and a half or two years old.

I thought he had a really nice sale. Watched from home and was quite impressed, but I don't think you can compare his sale to any other in the breed. Who is doing what he does? Is there a single other breeder efficiency testing? If I remember right, only 2 of his bulls even went to shorthorn breeders. That speaks volumes.

The Big Show / Re: Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C
« on: September 11, 2019, 08:44:20 PM »
I'm sure I will be crucified for asking but where does this bull shake out on the double muscle deal?

Tested free of all three.

Many of the Canadian breeders should be commended for their level of testing. Their list of results dwarfs the US list.

The Big Show / Re: Breeding issues.....
« on: September 09, 2019, 09:01:41 PM »
If he's special to you, get him looked at and collected as soon as possible.

You can pet the semen tank every morning long after he's gone.

The Big Show / Re: EPDs
« on: August 27, 2019, 07:28:21 PM »
That's an interesting set of numbers and adjustments.

I have two flush mates that obviously lean to opposite sides of their pedigrees. The differences in phenotype would have been obvious to anyone who knew the lines even when the calves were still wet. With ET calves not allowed into contemporary groups I ran genomics on them to see if it'd move the numbers as the eye indicated they should. To my surprise the system separated their numbers exactly like their phenotypes lead you to believe they should be, but it's several months down the line and now one of the bulls has been pulled right back to where other is even though neither bull has a single calf on the ground yet. If I had more cows I'd run them side by side for years and let it finish playing out.

The Big Show / Re: Everything Show Cattle is no more
« on: August 10, 2019, 09:55:58 AM »
Fb was always the equivalent of dealing with the devil. They'll get nearly every group before it's over with. Private farm pages and even personal profiles have been getting hit the last few weeks, so it's only a matter of time.

Websites and forums suddenly became cool again.

The Big Show / Re: county fair
« on: August 03, 2019, 10:05:24 PM »
After watching a couple county fairs the last few weeks, I would have to say I'm seeing the same. 1,400+ pound steers winning, some obviously aged heifers winning classes, and the big girls winning overall. Quite a few of the heifers had just returned from their respective Jr nationals and the opinions all seemed to be that you better have plenty of gas in the tank and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: August 03, 2019, 09:46:39 PM »
Has all the carrier SH animals tested so far shown up with E226X?
I was wondering about F94L and if it has appeared at all? The Limousin breed have it and quite often in the Irish system they score very high for their maternal qualities as well as their terminal qualities. In fact they often score higher than SH, SIM and Angus for maternal.

It appears a couple have shown up carrying F94L and nt419, but no where near as often as e226x has shown up.

Limms were one of the breeds that basically disappeared from my area years ago when the push for quality grade and CAB took over. Anything that can't produce a high choice or prime carcass on a regular basis has been punished hard. Rib Eye size is also a concern for some markets as when feedlots push to maximize their pounds/profits it leads to cuts so large the end user is left with serving sizes their customers can't handle. It also caused some end use processors to experiment with getting creative by turning traditional cuts into multiple smaller cuts with new names that their customers didn't recognize.

Producing lean in most of the midwest also often leaves us competing with South American imports and wages. Current label laws have left the door open for these imports to be blended and appear so similar to an actual product of the US that customers either can't tell the difference or don't care. So to me, that market currently appears to be a good way to run out of money fast.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 29, 2019, 12:21:23 PM »
So when you get the results from the ASA you get results for F94L, nt 419 and E226x. But what does it take........if you go through the ASA to get into the lab's web site that shows all 9 variants. Is there a code? Does the ASA block that? Can you see on the labs web site....all cattle that have been tested? Or is that all confidential information.?

After waiting a few weeks, you'll get a pdf emailed to you from the ASA with a 0, 1, or 2 in the results column. Below it will be a "results translation" like this.

Result Translation:
0 = animal does not have the Myostatin Mutation at the idicated mares and will have normal muscling.
1 = animal has the mutation at one allele and will have increased muscling.
2 = both alleles have the mutation and the animal will have more muscling than a result of 1.

It's very vague and does't even mention which gene is being discussed, but you can then go to your animal's registration page in digital beef and see the results for the three you listed. 0's are clean and 1's are carriers. These results are supposed to be posted for all to see and added to the genetic conditions link just like the other defect lists, but I've tested several animals and only see one on the list.

For whatever reason, there is a huge disconnect between you and the actual lab. I'm sure they have their reasons, but in general the Associations are often not able to discuss genetics and the testing at a high level. It is what it is. I have however called Geneseek/Neogen, on another matter, and after playing phone tag for a few days I was able to talk directly with one of their phd type "lead researchers" for close to an hour. She was very helpful and handled every question I could come up with, or put me in contact with someone who could, even though you could tell her schedule was very full. I have not tried this with Myostatin, but I would like to know if they are actually testing for all 9 variants or just the three listed.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 28, 2019, 03:36:12 PM »
So is this right? You take a tissue from an ear by a allflex applicator. You put it in a tube a long with a form and a form card card. You send it to ASA. You can test.....say a yearling bull with the th,pha, ds package for 48 dollars plus an add on myostatin test for an additional 27 dollars. So my questions.....do you mail or ups the sample? Is the allflex applicator the same kind as you use for tagging or is it diifferent. If you check the myostatin box do they test for E226 or the whold damn bunch of variants? So basically for me to test a yearling bull it would be 75 bucks. Thanks in advance.

I just use blood cards and mail it to the ASA. My form shows your $75 to be right, which is too damn high but I suppose the ASA doesn't have the bargaining power the AAA has. I was under the impression they tested for all 9 variants, but the results you get from the ASA aren't exactly clear and you only ever see results show up for E2226x, F94L & nt419 in the database.

I do not see a form, price, or any information to do testing directly through Geneseek/Neogen, even though I know they do it. In the past I had to contact them on some other testing in order for them to send me the correct form to use and it later showed up on their website.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 28, 2019, 10:19:52 AM »
One thing about it.......with dna testing.....there is no way hold your mouth just right....and no place to hide.

DNA and modern communication have definitely changed things. With a few clicks of the mouse you can stumble into discovering both F94L & nt419 are still moving around just as E2226x has been.

We'll all watch real panic set in if/when they figure out how to accurately age an animal with it.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 23, 2019, 05:37:16 PM »
The sire test is another interesting complication.

With its ability to affect bw, ww, yw, yield, marbling, and who knows what else it's worth scrolling the pedigrees entered. Those bulls are basically the foundation of the new carcass epds moving forward as well as having an affect on the breed's growth epds. Breeders are spending a significant amount of money to nominate bulls, the ASA is spending significant amounts of money advertising the results, and others are making breeding decisions based on bull comparisons. They're pulling 50k samples on all the calves, so single step is applying the comparisons made in the test across a wide swath of the the breed's genetic base. The influence of the results of those comparisons will linger throughout the epd flows for years to come. Seems significant, especially considering we are left in the dark as to which bulls are carriers.

In order for the data to be sorted accurately, you would expect the need for contemporary groups to be split on a carrier non-carrier basis. I'm sure this would limit the data statistically as they struggle to get enough calves as it is, but it's worth considering the implications.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 22, 2019, 05:30:04 PM »
There are carriers that do not have Gafa Mochican in their published pedigree. I don't know if semen even exists on him to have it tested. The Lady cow happens to be in at least one of carriers that do not go back to Mochican.

You'd have to ask Okotoks about Super Flag. I have a really nice and heavy muscled bred heifer sired by Super Flag that I need to test, but it's because there's a known carrier on the bottom side of her pedigree. The Lady cow happens to appear in the pedigree behind this particular known carrier as well.

I assume there are multiple sources as several full blood maine bulls were used honestly as well as dishonestly. If the Maine breeders or their Association would reveal their knowledge it would be easier to sort out the pedigrees where they were used honestly. It'd still be a puzzle though as we're talking about bulls that were used in the late 60s and early 70s and they weren't always put on the registration papers.

Either way, if you guys would start testing parentage on some of these old rumored bulls with whatever is left over in the tip of a staw after using one we could all watch the ASA play musical chairs with our epds as single step goes nuts trying to sort it out.

The Big Show / Re: Myostatin gene
« on: July 21, 2019, 10:28:46 AM »
I went back and read the article in the Shorthorn Country. It claimed they had only tested 11 head. I know how many I've tested, which means there can't be many breeders testing for it in the states or they're not using the ASA to do the testing.

I assume I have a couple carrier cows in my herd based on a calf each has thrown and one calf I know was carrying, so all future herd bulls will have to be tested clean here. It's not an option, and any breeder wanting to sell me a bull will need to show me some results or I'll move on. The defect won't get the chance to cost me any more money. I purchased these cows, which leads me back to that 11 head tested number being even more interesting. On the other side, I recently sold a bull and out of the blue mentioned he had tested clean and the breeder obviously knew what I was talking about.

You can track one of the sources of the gene back over 50 years. When you speak with the right circle of old breeders who knew the source, it doesn't seem to have been a secret even back then. If you mention having semen on a son the response is, "ya, don't line breed to him". Some of the bulls between then and now sired relatively very few calves, but obviously it managed to hang in there until today. It appears to me Shorthorn breeders went after muscling, and they found it.

The past really doesn't matter to me as we have a test to move forward with, but if you connect the dots and read between a line or two I can't help but wonder if the source I tracked to is the same source north of the border that was used under a different name.

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