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46
The Big Show / Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« on: February 06, 2019, 08:42:39 PM »
Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

How far out is this?

I've been waiting to see what happens to Kookaburra's numbers after hundreds of his progeny scans hit the IGS system.

47
The Big Show / Re: Bulls Heads
« on: February 06, 2019, 07:55:00 AM »
Just had a granddaughter of Enticer calve a few hours ago. For being a heifer she is mothering up well and has a nice udder. I would definitely be ok with removing 3" of leg and putting a better looking head on her.

48
The Big Show / Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« on: February 05, 2019, 07:47:59 PM »
I always heard of the Shorthorn as being "The great improver". Is it not possible to mainly aim for the second option, of having cattle with a good maternal base, but have some terminal traits?
A quick epd search of the uk database gave me 3 bulls I have used that I feel fulfill that. I'll attach photos. Also a search of the Irish database shows another example. These 4 bulls have maternal traits of easy calving, good milk etc but also have high growth, good carcass weight and high ribeye area.

I don't know how the UK and IGS epds compare, but a negative IMF score is a non starter here. If you're not pushing for a high choice average down the rail you're getting left behind. How far a breeder wants to push IMF is definitely debatable, but it absolutely has to be respectable if you want any piece of the US commercial market.

The question then becomes, just how accurate are 90% of the IMF numbers in the ASA system? Considering how massive a few of the REA and IMF score swings revealed so far are, it's safe to say most of them are probably still a wild ass guess at best. On top of this, for whatever reason, IGS has the shorthorn breed buried in a hole when compared to the other breeds. A suggestion that would address this issue has been brought up to the powers that be, but the potential results are feared. Fear should never restrict progress, especially considering Marc data still shows Shorthorns have nothing to fear.

49
The Big Show / Re: Bulls Heads
« on: February 04, 2019, 09:53:32 PM »
.... but is the swirl in the right spot?

Nice deep bull. Whatcha got there? The swirl is tremendous.

He's a Bonanza son. Now a year older than the pic with his first daughters calving soon. Threw a couple 1/2 sib to 1/2 sib matings in his daughters first calf crop to get the party started as quickly as possible so, we'll see how it shakes out.

50
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 04, 2019, 09:39:01 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

Last I looked, it cost a pretty penny to nominate a bull for the test. I could be wrong this year but if the ASA is going to have a sire test, why does it cost the producer so much dinero? Why not let any breeder who thinks they have a bull worthy submit a cane of semen? Why charge a fee? Have an initial proposal put out by the ASA asking for bulls. After everybody has submitted a bull/ bulls, have a vote by the whole memebership via a online survey to make sure the breed is fully represented by the samples. Dont make money be the variable as to whether a bull is worthy of the test. Let peer reviewed decide. Why limit it with exaborant fees? The breed needs all the help it can get, not some arbitrary fee so the ASA and U of I can collect the cash.

10 bulls in the latest round of sire test. Thats ridiculous. I hope Monte reads SP. or whoever is in charge of that test.

I have serious issues with the test and the ASA in general, but that doesn't mean the info can't be used. The UofI does not work cheap. Rent a grow safe pen at your nearest test station and see how much it sets you back.

Unless you're entering a bull, they're sorting multiple readily available bulls for you. Free of charge.

51
The Big Show / Re: Bulls Heads
« on: February 04, 2019, 09:21:11 PM »
.... but is the swirl in the right spot?


52
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 04, 2019, 08:56:43 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

53
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 03, 2019, 11:11:06 AM »

Thickest bull but would never use him or recommend him is Mr. V8 Bonfire.

I remember walking what must have been a hundred circles around Bonfire wondering if I really wanted to try to use his pieces. Somehow sanity prevailed.

His sire was up close in several of my thicker steers though.

54
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 03, 2019, 11:05:02 AM »
Scrolled through 80-90 head here and these jump out at me...
Navajo x line bred Durango is the biggest top and widest base even as an old cow.
Imagine 65x daughter that's a close second in a more compact package.
TM Gus sired big tops with almost clubby level rears.
Super Flag x Patent is monster topped as a yearling.

Lord Belmore and Dividend each put a good sized top in the bull pen. Yukon put one in there as well if you're willing to use a newer FB Maine papered as 3/4 short.

All of the above thickness can be wiped out with a single generation of Red Angus, which most of my commercial cows have. Yet, they are moving into a good sized chunk of the commercial market.

55
The Big Show / Re: Pa Do Suds
« on: February 01, 2019, 06:19:52 PM »
We used Suds on blacks and shorthorns to make steers for a few years and got along much better with him than we did with his sire.

Seeing the Fifth Avenue bull mentioned reminds me of a bull called Downtown Ave that I always wanted to try. I still would if I could track down a cane or two.

56
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: February 01, 2019, 06:11:42 PM »
The bull I have used for a number of years to attempt to add thickness is The Grove Kookaburra and he looks to be doing a good job for some in Canada. Haven't seen the Muridale bulls in another post from behind but they sure look good from a profile photo.

I used a son of his that Diamond raised and am pretty impressed with one of his calves in the yearling pen. He always had a big top, but he is really putting on the rear.

57
The Big Show / Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« on: January 30, 2019, 07:29:52 PM »
Not saying he belongs on the top 5 all time list, or that he's necessarily what I think of when I hear "power bull", but have you looked at any of the FSF or Near Perfect calves? I've noticed some that were pretty damn nice for their age and were definitely thick from the rear. He's got a few fans building in the southern regions after limited use and the calves I saw were nice enough I dropped a few straws in cows of the same type. The ds status and pedigree are worth mentioning if you plan to retain any calves or if your customers care.

I can think of a few modern bulls that come to mind, but I'd sure like to know their myostatin status to know if there's a reason it seems like they can be hit or miss on muscling.

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of people looking for thickness, rear end, probably length, and overall muscling in the near future.

58
The Big Show / Re: Sexed semen quality
« on: January 22, 2019, 11:33:09 PM »
have heard of a paper of someone doing a bunch of procedures


ivf with sexed semen
ivf with regular semen, but sexing the embryos
ivf with regular semen and not sexing the embryos
flush with sexed semen
flush with unsexed semen


study said each step does something to the ultimate viability and health of calf. study is controversial and needs to be repeated as this obviously impacts which techniques to try. basically paper concludes it's probably better to sex the embryos if using ivf for more of what you want with healthier calves.


will try and get paper.

I would be interested in reading it.

Know a genetics company that keeps a running tab and reverse sorting slightly outperforms using presorted sexed semen in their IVF procedures. The problem with the overall number is not all bulls or semen collection facilities are equal. Their tab from specific studs holds up on what they consider to be the better collection facilities, but it gets hit or miss from some facilities and older semen can be really variable. They also keep track of the better sorting semen right down to the cane it came from when sourcing from a known storage block. Buying straight from the source and keying in a certain known collection codes and even specific canes on some of these bulls can help avoid disasters.

Finding new collection codes to try on older rare bulls that have proven to not sort has been quite difficult. When you do find the semen, very few actually know the collection code and unless it's at a center where you can submerse and read the straws they want you to buy it first. I don't blame them, but potentially sortable semen has more value than known unsortable to me. Owning a significant dollar value of that old unsortable semen is why I would like to know more about anyone using the ABS system. If it really is a different procedure, there are several shorthorn bulls that I'm sure several people would like to try to run through the ABS system.

59
The Big Show / Re: Sexed semen quality
« on: January 22, 2019, 01:42:13 PM »
I got along with 3ml on observed heats fairly well, but it was sorted by their competitor's system.

I'd like to know if they are reverse sorting with their system yet and how the technology differs from what the rest of the industry is reverse sorting with.

60
The Big Show / Re: Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C
« on: January 13, 2019, 07:39:39 PM »
Do you have a lot of confidence in genomic testing of Shorthorn cattle?

Now there's a topic for a new thread.

Add recent epd movement to the topic and it could get interesting.

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