AI available 3/4 Simmental calving ease

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Till-Hill

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Looking for an AI available 3/4 Simmental CALVING EASE sire. In a perfect world he would be HOMO Black and HOMO Polled and a baldy. Don't care what the other 1/4 is. Must be calving ease, trait trac GREEN, high MWW, and growth. I'm just drawing a blank on these bulls.

Using on 1/4 blood females and want to get them back to 1/2 bloods. Also would be great if there was no Legacy in the bull.

Any suggestions? Thanks.
 

vcsf

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From a numbers point of view you would be hard pressed to beat out Top Grade.  He does trace back to Legacy through Upgrade to Ollie.  If memory serves me correctly I believe Leanbeef had used or was going to use him so may be able to give more input.

An older highly proven bull that meets most of your criteria is GW Lucky Charm.  He is however heterozygous polled and not a blaze face.  Semen is available through Genex.
 

leanbeef

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Wow...People DO read these things! LOL

Yes...We have some Top Grade babies on the ground, and he has been very easy calving. I'll share a few thoughts and comments, and these are meant to be as helpful and as constructive AND AS OBJECTIVE as I can be...

1st of all, that Felt bull does not fit this scenario in any shape or form. Yes, he's a baldy and 3/4...after that, he misses the mark. His EPDs are a total miss across the board, and he's TraitTrac Yellow...that would be a no go.

I LOVED the picture of Top Grade the first time I saw him. I called about him and got good reviews, and I was anxious to use him, and we did. I got to see Top Grade at River Creek last summer during the Beef Profit Alliance meeting, and he didn't look like I expected him to, but in fairness, it was a tough summer and the bull had just come in off cows. He wasn't bad, but he didn't look like the bull in the picture. We also saw a few of his first calves...I thought they were pretty...very clean fronted, stylish profiling calves. They could have stood a little more bone and more ruggedness, but they were young, so I allowed them that.

Our first ones came this January, and birth weights have been small to moderate. They excel in terms of eye appeal, being very clean necked and fancy made. That's really all I can say about them at this point. We had a couple out of first-calf-heifers, and we never touched any of them. They seem to be growing and keeping up with the other calves, but we'll see how things look at weaning time. I think he'll work best on cows that have plenty of bone and body...heavy structured, rugged designed, broody type cows that need to be prettied up a little.

I would also say take a look at Long's Shear Pleasure. I think it's gonna be hard to completely get away from any Legacy, looking for a bull with performance and maternal AND calving ease. Shear Pleasure is a Shear Force son, so he's a Legacy grandson. I used this bull as a yearling and had a handful of calves that are now fall-spring yearlings. All besides one were very moderate at birth, came easily, and grew well. I had one wreck out of a Rookie heifer that had big growth numbers, and I accredited that to stacking high growth on high growth...it just didn't work. Everything else I had out of him was very realistic. He works best on Angus-influenced cattle that can stand a little frame and length. He won't add muscle or bone, but he won't take it away. They can get framey and flat if the females are high % Simmental or built that way, but I think he works well on the right kind, and 1/4 bloods should be OK. If you want a baldy, he's one to at least have on your list. He's a high growth bull with maternal and rib eye...his API really fell off this spring...I'm guessing because his calving ease and marbling didn't quite live up to expectations with his first proof.

Another 3/4 bull we're looking at this spring is GW-WBF Substance. Unless I'm mistaken, he was the high-selling bull at Gateway's last year at $28,000. I've heard good things about his first calves, but there's very little out there yet. I think he's one to watch based on his EPD profile, his pedigree, and what I've heard about him, but I don't know very much more to go on.

There aren't a lot of 3/4 blood bulls out there, but here are a few more ideas with a few comments:
GW Lucky Charm - Solid black 3/4 blood, proven calving ease bull; homozygous black / heterozygous polled...we've had a few of these, and frankly some are decent and some are really plain. I think there are better options, especially if eye appeal is a requirement. Some of them get kinda ugly.

AJE/PB Montecito - Homozygous black, blaze faced 3/4 blood Steel Force x Maximus...full brother to Optimus Prime...Nice looking bull in his pictures...relatively breed average EPDs across the board with a low API of only $89...ranks in the 80th % for API. I haven't seen any calves.

Hooks Titus - He's a half blood, not a 3/4, but he is a baldy, and he transmits the blaze face fairly well. Titus is a homozygous black and homozygous polled son of Mytty In Focus out of a Legacy dam, and the calves we've had have come very small and easy, and they've grown quite well. I've heard they'll be pretty, and I wouldn't argue there given the few we've had. I have half bloods out of SimAngus cows and a couple of 1/4 bloods out of Angus heifers, and I didn't touch any of them. He's a baldy bull I would recommend on heifers, and his EPDs are pretty decent.

I'm using another blaze faced 1/2 blood this year, but he's not really a calving ease bull. I'm only using him on 1/2 blood cows...no heifers. He's a Predestined son from Sunshine Farms...SSF Blk Predistined U221 (His name is misspelled in the database). Kind of a cool bull, and he is blaze faced, but nobody has recommended him to me for heifers. I haven't had any calves out of him yet. Should have a couple come this fall.

Not sure that helps much, but that's about all I got. There will be more 3/4 blood bulls out there soon, and there'll be more baldies all the time, so just keep your eyes and ears open and see what shows up.

Good luck!
 

vcsf

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Leanbeef, what you said about the GW Luck Charm calves is what I suspected as far as eye appeal but I have heard that the do make very good cows though I have no personal experience.

I suspect that if one did some research that there would be some 3/4 bulls from TNT Simmentals in North Dakota that would fit the criteria desired other than the blaze face but I can not think of the names off the top of my head.

The Shear Pleasure bull is one that seems to be doing some good things.
 

Till-Hill

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Keep them coming thanks guys. Legacy pretty hard to get by.

Have two Long Shear Pleasures coming this year. A front runner but Legacy!

Top Grade I like just dang legacy again thanks for thoughts. He is a maybe if I have to settle for it.

Felt bull looks ok, numbers and Trait Trac ruined it for me. Looks like quality bull but not for me.

Lucky Charm has lots of experience with. Great commercial cows and had almost forgot about him, I never saw anything wrong with the Saler and South Devon on his bottom side and I think it gave him a kick of hybred vigor as why his cows turned out so good. Will really think on him again as I am way more for proven VS risky when comes to heifers.

What about this bull? 154 registered calves so CED and BW should be little trustworthy. Black but Homo polled. 3 generations back is Legacy again
https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_performAnimalSearch=T&animalNumbers=2571660
 

leanbeef

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The TNT Axis bull looks good on paper and in his pictures...I think I remember him being heterozygous black, so we won't be using him.

One bull I like that I've seen advertised this spring is TNT Punch...a 5/8 blood Tanker son. I like the Tanker calves...still goes back to Legacy, but it's a few generations back there. And he's a 5/8 which doesn't seem quite as friendly as if he was either 1/2 or 3/4...I don't know how people will feel about the tweener percentages...maybe it's just me? I have had a few of those...prob not a big deal. I just like the 1/2s and 3/4 bloods.
 

ALTSIMMY 79

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DW Foundation. An RR Wharehouse son with Bon View Bando on the mommas side. He's a three quarter Baldy with outcross genetics ! It would be nice to see a mature picture of him though!
 

vcsf

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ALTSIMMY 79 said:
DW Foundation. An RR Wharehouse son with Bon View Bando on the mommas side. He's a three quarter Baldy with outcross genetics ! It would be nice to see a mature picture of him though!

So this would be the bull registered as Foundation 724N?  Just curious if you have any personal experience with the bull?  I know nothing about him but looking him up on the ASA website he seems to miss the mark here on a few counts as he ranks in the bottom 80  percentile or worse for both growth traits and maternal weaning weight.  He also fails the trait trac test having the potential to be a CA carrier.
 

Till-Hill

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Matt I like the idea but I can't get past the red trait trac! Spend enough money easy year testing clubby cattle rather use clean simmy stuff!
 

leanbeef

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I'm curious why no Legacy? Is that the foundation blood in these 1/4 blood females? They're obviously not direct daughters of Legacy, so I wouldn't be overly concerned with that. If I was gonna double up on a bull on both sides of the pedigree, he's not a bad one to have there. Not that I would be looking for a close relative, but I wouldn't rule a bull out that went back to him somewhere either. That's just my opinion...
 

firesweepranch

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ALTSIMMY 79 said:
Forgot to mention that Foundation is also the sire of K-ler Make it Rain who is both homo blk and homo polled,  and good!!!

We have a really nice Make It Rain 3/4 blood bull that we will be pushing this year. No white, but dang, he is nice right now for a 4 month old! MIR really changed the cow... added guts and cleaned up her front.
 

Till-Hill

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One eye jack yearling bull so his calving ease won't be real proven and Legacy also on there.
I want to stay away from Legacy if possible. The heifers would be out of In Dew Time Jumpstart pharoh and Shear Force daughters.
Just be nice to get away from Legacy and try to make some out cross calves.
 

leanbeef

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One Eyed Jack is also a purebred, and semen is $100 a straw.

I think as far as what's available and known right now, and based on what you're looking for, these are still the three bulls I would have on the list:

MCM Top Grade - homozygous black & polled, proven calving ease bull with growth, maternal, and carcass potential
GW-WBF Substance - homozygous black & polled, less proven bull that does have calving ease potential, but breed average birth weight expectations and no Legacy blood at all
Long's Shear Pleasure - the closest thing you might get to what you want if you really want a baldy on the list, but not exactly what you want in terms of pedigree and calving ease. Still not a ridiculous choice, though.

If you're willing to consider a half blood bull that would make 3/8 calves, and you still like the baldy thing, I would look at Hooks Titus as well. You'd give up the fact that he's not a 3/4 and he is out of a Legacy daughter as well, but otherwise, he's pretty much exactly what you're asking for. It's always about making concessions and prioritizing our list. What's most important to you?
 

leanbeef

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Hey, if you really want to stick to the 3/4 blood, no Legacy thing, check out these two bulls...

Neither of them are baldies, but they are homozygous black and polled 3/4 bloods that don't have Legacy in the pedigrees. Both are out of strong programs and have good numbers. I don't know exactly why either of them might not be as highly promoted or as highly regarded as some of the bulls that are more talked about, but they might be worth checking out.

GW Lucky Boy 252U - A Lucky Man son, so I would ask about his proof for being a non-spotter. We've used Gateway bulls with quite a bit of success, and I have a lot of respect for anything with a GW prefix. I can't say Lucky Man has been one of my favorites from Gateway, but he seems to work for a lot of people.

https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/template/animalSearch%2CAnimalSearch.vm/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction

IR Expedition W413 - Bred by Irvine Ranch in Kansas...really, really nice folks with a focused program and a strong set of genetics. I visited the ranch last summer and I was impressed. I can't say I know a lot about this bull, but he's along the lines of what you're looking for on paper at least...

https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2543279


You can see pictures of both bulls in the 2012 Allied Genetic Resources catalog, and I'm sure Marty Ropp would be glad to talk to you about these two or any of the bulls you might find in there. Here's a link to a pdf of the catalog:

http://alliedgeneticresources.com/pdf/SemenGuide.pdf
 

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