Angus Question

Aussie · Jul 25, 2010

With so many knowledgeable people on the list and many of them angus breeders I was wanting to know why the bull TC Stockman 2164http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=22342A3D&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5D5A5B592259232726 was not used much in the states. He has had a huge influence in the Australian herd although not in the mold of todays "fad" angus is still a great bull. Big calves easily born, great females and very saleable bulls. Thanks for any replies.

Aussie · Jul 25, 2010

A typical 2164 daughter

Cattledog · Jul 25, 2010

My guess is because a paternal brother named TC Stockman 365 was around and was very popular. A lot of really good females were sired by him and he has also sired some influential bulls. Northern Improvement is a notable sire.

Aussie · Jul 25, 2010

Cattledog said:
My guess is because a paternal brother named TC Stockman 365 was around and was very popular. A lot of really good females were sired by him and he has also sired some influential bulls. Northern Improvement is a notable sire.

Yes 365 was used here to but 2164 has had more to offer with a touch more frame and more style.

Cattledog · Jul 25, 2010

Aussie said:
Cattledog said:

My guess is because a paternal brother named TC Stockman 365 was around and was very popular. A lot of really good females were sired by him and he has also sired some influential bulls. Northern Improvement is a notable sire.

Click to expand...

Yes 365 was used here to but 2164 has had more to offer with a touch more frame and more style.

I've never seen any calves out of him so I'm kind of making blind stabs. His BW EPD is pretty high. I know you say that his calves are born easily but that number probably scared quite a few people away. One of the things that made 365 so popular is that he was easier calving than his sire. I personally liked the old TC Stockman calves. Those were some of the most powerful calves at that time.

Aussie · Jul 25, 2010

Yes his BW epd is very but like I said they are a good shape and although not a hfr bull they come easy very smooth shoulder. Another daughter

BadgerFan · Jul 26, 2010

Aussie said:
With so many knowledgeable people on the list and many of them angus breeders I was wanting to know why the bull TC Stockman 2164http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=22342A3D&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5D5A5B592259232726 was not used much in the states. He has had a huge influence in the Australian herd although not in the mold of todays "fad" angus is still a great bull. Big calves easily born, great females and very saleable bulls. Thanks for any replies.

Because there are lots of good bulls out there. Not all of them get used as much as they should and some get used more than they should. It takes a perfect storm for a bull to really hit the big time.

ploughshare · Jul 26, 2010

Nice looking proven bull, but with Freestate Barbara in the pedigree I doubt too many knowledgeable breeders would want to use him now. Was this one of the bulls the Aussie's focused on when evaluating Fawn Calf?

Show Heifer · Jul 26, 2010

No Glenstory, the "official list" is not out, so according to the aaa, barbara is nothing more than an angus cow! And even if SHE is, doesn't mean HE is.... gotta have that test.
Those that are "in the know" say today is the day... maybe a bit of "slipped information" but we will see!

deedub · Jul 26, 2010

i have wonderd the same thing but he gets used a lot in wv

Aussie · Jul 26, 2010

Glenstory said:
Nice looking proven bull, but with Freestate Barbara in the pedigree I doubt too many knowledgeable breeders would want to use him now. Was this one of the bulls the Aussie's focused on when evaluating Fawn Calf?

No this is not one of the suspect bulls. Here is a link to an article I posted a few weeks ago with the known carriers http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/336944/Congenital-contractural-arachnodactyly-in-Angus-cattle.pdf

oakie · Jul 26, 2010

He wouldn't work for my cows because (imo, not trying to offend) he has a big shoulder, short neck, I don't like his tailhead, he has a wastey throat, and he just looks too short legged to me. My own opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but I think he would make better commercial cattle than show cattle, like if you crossed them to a simmental, or something like that. I don't know what the shipping price is to ship seman overseas, but I am guessing that that is the reason that bull is not advertised over here (or at least I haven't seen him).

DL · Jul 26, 2010

The FCS (now called CA) list is on the AAA web site
http://www.angus.org/pub/CA/CA_Summary.pdf

Aussie · Jul 26, 2010

oakie said:
He wouldn't work for my cows because (imo, not trying to offend) he has a big shoulder, short neck, I don't like his tailhead, he has a wastey throat, and he just looks too short legged to me. My own opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but I think he would make better commercial cattle than show cattle, like if you crossed them to a simmental, or something like that. I don't know what the shipping price is to ship seman overseas, but I am guessing that that is the reason that bull is not advertised over here (or at least I haven't seen him).

Oakie no offence taken but it is a crap photo of him and all you have said about him is the opposite to what he thows. Big calves born easy = smooth shoulder long neck. The bull him self is a massize 1300+kg frame 7.5 so that is why his legs look short. Sired many all bred champs around Aust. Any way thanks for the feedback

oakie · Jul 26, 2010

My point was he is more commercial than showy. Nothing wrong with that and not trying to insult you, but you asked and I answered.

trevorgreycattleco · Jul 26, 2010

Thanks for posting that link DL. I see BVND 878 is NOt a carrier. That would have been very bad. I feel sorry for Schaff's tho, 5175 and 598 are carriers. I would think as many times as they used 5175 they had to have some affected calves at some point. I still love their program tho. Made my day when I saw 878 was free. I'm sure I'm not the only one breathing a sigh of relief. My 878 daughter has made great calves with shorthorns. Looks like she will get to continue to do so, good Lord willing and the creek don't rise.

Aussie · Jul 27, 2010

Thanks for the replies interesting that a bull form the US did big things here but unheard of in his own country. Hope the lastest list of bulls does not effect to many. I have survived the last 3 with my herd free but I am sure there is one coming that will get me
<beer>

trevorgreycattleco · Jul 27, 2010

wonder why more black angus breeders don't linebreed? Seems to me they could have caught alot of this stuff sooner. Other then Sinclair Cattle with the old NBar genetics I can't name any big time outfits. Maybe Diamond D in Montana? Aussie I had never heard of the bull you are askin about till your post. Seems that happens with bulls. I can think of one shorthorn bull (Wakaru Gold Ship) that did real well in Australia but didn't really do much here in the states. I had a daughter out of him and ended up having to ship her.

cowboybecoachin · Jul 29, 2010

TC Stockman is a great bull, in my opinion. We have a great deal of 365 in our herd. Our senior herd sire, CC Christians Coach 5040, is an Intrigue (owned by Robert Lastovica, ) son of 365 that has produced many champions. Our Jr. herdsire is LAF Trademark, son of the 2005 Ft. Worth champion heifer (an Intrigue daughter) and QLC LA GRANDE Forum.

Some Texas breeders do not like him because he sires a lotta hair, but I like Stockman cattle, especiaqlly in the showring.

Our Coach bull has incredible muscle and thickness, a great, long front end, more bone than most any angus, and is very gentle. Also has incredible growth. WW EPD is 57+. First calf he ever sired had an adjusted wening wt. of 811 lbs. Second calf he ever sired was LIGHT WT. CHAMP @ Ft. Worth. We have sold some incredible heifer/steer prospects out of this bull.

worthabit · Jul 30, 2010

sorry to get a little off topic but I agree with cowboybecoachin that 365 make great cattle and lots of hair. This was one of our previous herdsires who was a 365.

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