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Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« on: January 25, 2012, 11:05:41 PM »
Who was the better female maker , Joker or the Fortune 500 bull ? I've had Jokers but never been around any out of the Forune 500 bull. Both 1996 born black pb bulls. Since its tough to find the right bull today that actually has a positive milk epd I may go back to one of these bulls on a few cows. Thanks in advance.

Offline HEAVEN_CATTLE

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 11:16:55 PM »
Hands down Joker does it better

Offline husker1

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 09:33:59 AM »
I always like the Joker females...

Now if you want to go older school yet....loved the Pineview Jazz females!  They might not make them the right color for you though!


Offline leanbeef

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 10:35:21 AM »
Joker daughters are good. There were also a bunch of really good Fortune 500s out there. The one thing I don't like about Joker from a complete point of view is his carcass, particularly his marbling EPD, is terrible. He also has an API below 100, but the daughters will milk.

Fortune 500 has a lot better numbers. He's heterozygous black, so you can get some red calves out of him. Both of those bulls are homozygous polled and non spotters.

Another bull from around the same time period that will make excellent daughters is Nichols Legacy G151. Look at the bottom side of the pedigrees of the AI bulls you like...see how many of those are out of Legacy daughters.

All three of those bulls would be worth using if you had a bunch of cows and wanted to make some nice cows. Legacy would be my choice HANDS DOWN if I was gonna pick one of em and wanted a real complete package in terms of phenotype and EPDs. I would consider Joker if not for the Marbling EPD and the API...Fortune 500 if I didn't care about the red gene.

If I was going old old school (which I actually AM doing on some Angus cows), the bull I'd choose would be Bold Future. I got three black baldy half blood females and they're NOT FOR SALE!

 

Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 07:21:19 PM »
Thanks for the replys , yes I liked the Jokers that I've had but was just curious if the 500 bull had some likers out there also. Legacy is a given , a ton of everything go back to him so I'm leaving him out of this question. Thanks again !

Offline SIMMGAL

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 08:28:21 PM »
If you are open to other options, Grandmaster, Shear Force and Right On are all good female makers that I have seen some good offspring out of. Their Milk is also very high. A Simmi breeder friend of mine uses Right On heavily and the females have been very good looking and maternal. She also has used Grandmaster with success. I like those three for maternal, if youre looking for bulls outside of Joker and 500. The same breeder I know has used lots of Joker and been sucessful.
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Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 08:44:40 PM »
Simmgal - good suggestions but I'm talkin just in between the two old bulls in general. I've got my heifers due to Grandmaster , used Shear Force before also. Just looking to put some old bloodlines back on some of the newer genetics.

Offline SIMMGAL

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 08:50:51 PM »
Simmgal - good suggestions but I'm talkin just in between the two old bulls in general. I've got my heifers due to Grandmaster , used Shear Force before also. Just looking to put some old bloodlines back on some of the newer genetics.
Wellllll then between the two, I really like Joker. He gives them some more showy type style and makes good females as well. I have seen more Joker than 500. Isn't Grandmaster out of Joker? That's the proof he makes some good ones! Haha! ;D
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cattle and that's pretty much the same thing as far as I'm concerned!

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Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2012, 01:32:10 AM »
That's correct , Grandmaster is a Joker. Still curious about the old 500 bull , I think there is some good in him. Joker was definitely more popular but that doesn't always mean better....

Offline leanbeef

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2012, 08:56:20 AM »
One of the more popular Fortune 500 sons was Momentum. I've seen some really nice daughters of Fortune 500 as well as Momentum. Going by the numbers, the Fortune 500s have quite a bit going for them, and structurally they were pretty good, too. If you don't care that he's heterozygous black, I think he's a smart bull to go back and use to make cows.

I liked Joker when I saw him show in Louisville. He got beat that year by a bull called Snafu who WAS A BIG SNAFU! I never liked him, and he won every show he went to that winter. It was always more than obvious that Joker would be the better breeding bull, and his daughters have proven that. I wish he had a higher API, and I'm sure it's because his marbling number is so low because marb plays into API fairly heavily. You can always go back on your Joker daughters with a better carcass bull. Or use him on Angus cows...

I'd use both of em if I had plenty of cows and wanted to make some good females.

Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 02:19:08 PM »
Thanks leanbeef , red cattle don't scare me a bit considering all our Simmys used to be that color ! I might just have to try the old bull for myself.

Offline dixieland cattle co

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 03:02:32 PM »
If you want to use some older Simmy bulls, you might want to consider Black Mick or Black Irish Kansas.  Black Mick cows milk as well as any. You might also like MV Red Light he made some pretty good females over the years. And a couple old faithfull bulls Highwayman 33T & Polled Abundance.  I guess I am showing my age here.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 03:25:49 PM by dixieland cattle co »

Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 04:12:00 PM »
We bred about 40 cows to Black Mick back in the day , I wasn't overly impressed with the calves but I know he has also made some good ones. Showed a Red Light grandaughter back in high school , like that bull also. Good info !

Offline LN

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 06:11:07 PM »
Here's a bull that hasn't been mentioned yet and is a great female maker...Nichols Blk Destiny D12.
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Offline outspoken

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Re: Better female maker ( Old Simmy Bulls )
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 06:47:57 PM »
you mention having legacy in the pedigree-- if your going through the trouble of using old stuff.. why not linebreed around it, and with it?  why not put those legacy g-g-g rand daughters, back to him? 

linebreeding never hurt anything...

 

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