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Offline oakbar

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Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« on: October 22, 2008, 11:42:02 AM »
I am probably going to try to work with a couple of local friends to use some of their cows as recips next spring.    How do the rest of you compensate your cooperators and what types of agreements do you have?   What things wouldn't you do again?
Oakbar Ranch
Northwood, IA

oakbar1258@wctatel.net

Offline CAB

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 12:11:18 PM »
 Lynn, I've heard that some PPL put them in for so many dollars per lb above market, some flat rate so much per calf, and some put embryos in on shares. Wiese hereford's flat rate, so much per weaned calf. Make the best deal that you can I guess. Try to be fair and cut your risks along the way if possible. We've only done this once and haven't closed out the deal yet, so I don't know which way will be best for everyone and I guess there is no way to know until each deal is done. Hope this helps, but I doubt that it has. Brent

Offline braunvieh

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 12:16:53 PM »
Oakbar,
We are trying this with my brother right now. He runs a commercial cow herd. We used 5 of his cows for recips in May, since we didn't have enough. We paid for all the drugs and embryos, all that, and I think only 3 were implanted. If any have ET calves, we will keep the calf but buy it from him at current market price when the time comes. That was acceptable to him as that is how he would sell his anyway. If they don't have an ET calf, nothing lost to him. We also talked about sharing on an exceptional calf, if he wanted to do that. He is very easy to work with and flexible and that helps tremendously. He also let us work with him on selecting cows we thought would be great recips.

Offline klintdog

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 12:17:57 PM »
The ET person we work with will charge a flat cow use fee of $150 per recip. They then watch the cattle market in August and take the high for the month. You can then come in and pick the ET calves you want from your coop herd and pay $.10 over the top market price from August.

Basically here's the breakdown:
You pay for all the drugs and collection/implant cost.
Flat fee of $150/embryo implanted
August price has a high of $1.25/lb
You purchase a calf in September that weighs 500 lbs. You pay $1.35/lb for her, or $675.

Offline Jason

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 12:31:54 PM »
The ET person we work with will charge a flat cow use fee of $150 per recip. They then watch the cattle market in August and take the high for the month. You can then come in and pick the ET calves you want from your coop herd and pay $.10 over the top market price from August.

Basically here's the breakdown:
You pay for all the drugs and collection/implant cost.
Flat fee of $150/embryo implanted
August price has a high of $1.25/lb
You purchase a calf in September that weighs 500 lbs. You pay $1.35/lb for her, or $675.

That sounds pretty reasonable deal.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 12:32:28 PM by Jason »
"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up." --- Thomas Edison in 1877

Offline CAB

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 12:38:37 PM »
  I agree Jason, other than Braunvieh's deal with her/his brother, it's as cheap of a deal as have ever heard of. Brent

Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 12:39:12 PM »
I sent you a PM!
Jen
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline klintdog

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 12:41:03 PM »
My math is probably off a bit, because I know it's more expensive than it appears. Here's the realistic cost:

Per Egg Cost - $200 (5 x $200 for 5 eggs = $1000)
Per Cow Drug Cost - $100 (5 x $100 = $500)
Implant 5 cows - $150/cow - $750
Buy 2 calves back. They weigh 650 lbs (650 x 1.35 = $877.50 per purchased calf)

So those two calves cost you a total of $4,005, or $2,002 each.

Offline kanshow

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 01:10:41 PM »
We've ran a cooperater herd with some of our commercial cows.   There are a few ways you can do it.   What we like best is this one....    The embryo owner pays for drugs, cidrs, transfer fees.    We pay for all cow upkeep, calf vaccinations.     They buy the calf back at weaning based on current market price plus a flat rate of $200/hd.     Since we are actually calving the cows out, we are responsible for getting weights, recording CE data, calving dates, following their vaccine protocol - which has been the one we use.   We tag the ET calves different with the owner's data on them & let them know which pasture their calves are in & basically give them permission to look whenever they want - but they usually call & we take them up.    We do run a bull with the cows because if they fail in the ET program, they can fall right back into our commercial herd.

Now my hubby said that this cost us one year...  there was a heifer we liked from day 1 & she just kept getting better all year.   They took her at weaning time and later put her in their sale where I bought her back.   




Offline KYsteer

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 07:57:50 PM »
I have tried a couple of different ways, but our current agreement has been the best that we have come up with so far.  I supply the embryos and that is all.  The cooperator herd pays all the other expenses.  I come through a couple of times in the summer and then at weaning I decide the calves that I want.  The only way to make this fair is that we sell all the calves that I deem are worthy.  The rest of the calves are kept by the co-op herd.  The ones that I want have to be sold either in the production sale or private treaty.  After the calf is sold then they get $600 as the market value and then we split the rest 50/50. 

Offline simtal

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 08:40:07 PM »
how do you compensate the coop herd for lost time if your cows don't take to the eggs?  Better yet, how do you convince people to do it?  Does anyone just take all the calves (junkers too) and just pay flat cow rental fees?  Atleast with the junkers you can recoup some cost.
....Now, they always, in the direst of circumstances, every time liberalism fails, which is every time it's tried, at some point you reach a catastrophe.....

Offline simtal

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 08:58:00 PM »
this topic has got my brain rolling.  What if you rented cows from somebody (take all of the risk) put in eggs/drugs/labor etc. and keep the ones that take, fed em, and calf them out yourself.  cows that don't take get sent back to owner bred (maybe get their cows bred by your bull).  Then give the owner the profit he would make with the egg safe cows (say 50-60 bucks a head, max 100).  I think that this would be a good way as your the one managing the cows and anything that goes wrong is your fault.  That way you guarantee calve survival and  nutrition for the cows and calves. Junk calves help your bottom line. The only tricky part is what do you with cows that die or have complications and won't rebreed? Guess that were the big risk is.  Guess after awhile you could "own the cows" over several years if they turn out to be good recips.  Kinda like financing a car.
....Now, they always, in the direst of circumstances, every time liberalism fails, which is every time it's tried, at some point you reach a catastrophe.....

Offline shortdawg

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 09:41:32 PM »
I've heard several deals but the one I've heard most is $ 1.25/lb at weaning or a flat $ 800.
Eph. 2:8-10

Offline Doc

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 09:46:08 PM »
 I like it best when you pay by the pound. That way you are assured they are doing their best to make those suckers grow. I'm always afraid that on a flat rate deal they're going to try to cut corners somewhere to make the most money.
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Offline shortdawg

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 09:51:26 PM »
Do you know where Jamie's recips come from ? I've sure got good use out of every one I've gotten from him.
Eph. 2:8-10

 

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